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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010, 06:00 
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I play a modern defensive (I like the term semi-defensive better) game and have been doing so for about a year (bought my first lp about 18 months ago, played close to the table at first). I have been using Dawei 388D for BH chopping and occasionally attacking since december last year and I like it alot. 4 moths ago I changed blade to Joo Se Hyuk and that helped me improve my chopping. I changed sponge to a soft Avalox 0,8 mm about 3 months ago and my chopping is better than ever.

However... I feel I depend on my opponents spin a lot, when I chop with full power, and it looks like I produce a very heavy backspin, for some reason I kill the spin and return a no spin ball. When I chop lighter the ball carries a lot of back spin. This is at first very deceptive for my opponents but after a while they get wiser... and that means problems for me.

Also I have problems returning serves in a way that makes it difficult for my opponent to power loop or to smash. I can't produce enough spin on my own. I don't think this would be easier with a thicker sponge. I try to twiddle as often as I can when recieving serves but I would like to be able to use my lp for this.

My third problem is that I can't attack with my BH as good as I am used to. I think this has to do with the change of blade. I place the ball too far or into the net. If I am not good at recieving and attacking with my lp I won't get many chances move away from the table and chop. Therefore I am willing to give up some of the chopping control of the Dawei 388D for better attacking possibilities and a little better grip.

My next step (this step actually started yesterday) is to use a little thinner and firmer (but not faster) sponge - Blütenkirche. This makes the piples a little less "bendier". I think it helped my attacking a little, and it didn't made it more difficult to chop. Recieving serves and creating your own spin got a little worse perhaps. But I will try again tomorrow.

But I am thinking about trying a new lp. What do you think is the next logical step?

I have tried Dawei 388D-1 (both regular and quattro version) and maybe I need to try that again on my Joo-blade, but I didn't have the same control when chopping and it felt a little fast (the quattro version). But the difference wasn't that big. Also, I have tried TSP Curl P1-r 0,6 mm but I had some troubles in the short game and to place the ball low when chopping. I think it is too grippy for me. The others I have tried failed to generate enough backspin when chopping (Meteor 8512 0,8 mm def, Pogo 0,6 mm, Palio CK513A 0,6 mm).

I have been reading about Dtechs, but most of it is about the ox version. Could the 1,2 mm version be what I am looking for? Would I be able to create more back spin when recieving serves and in the short play? Is it easier to attack with? Is it much more difficult to chop with (I am worried about the speed, I have been playing with a slow chopping rubber up 'til now)?

Has anyone tried Dtechs with another sponge? Can anyone compare Dtechs to Dawei 388D?

Help is greatly appreciated!

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010, 13:18 
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Try Double Fish 1615 or Pogo. DF 1615 is good for chops and hits. It provides consistency and good control. One can use it for defence or attack. Some attackers use a thin sponge for DF 1615.


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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010, 13:49 
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DF 1615 is renown for breaking pips by attackers, not sure about choppers though.

Must try it myself one of these days when I get the chance.

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010, 15:22 
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GR wrote:
Try Double Fish 1615 or Pogo. DF 1615 is good for chops and hits. It provides consistency and good control. One can use it for defence or attack. Some attackers use a thin sponge for DF 1615.


1615 is one of the most famous pips that I haven't tried. And for the price of one Dtechs I can get 10 1615.... I have tried Pogo and it was the best I have tried for attacking but it is not for chopping. Difficult to control and not enough spin was produced.

I do have a sheet of Cloud & Fog III without sponge. But I feel that C&F doesn't have the same amount of grip as my Dawei. But C&F is a very good allround lp.

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010, 19:20 
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You could try the TSP Curl -1R. This are among the best one for producing backspin by themselves, which it sounds like you're after. It's very durable too. Although the Dtecs would probably be good too, I think it's main strength is for blocking in close in OX, and I suspect it may be quite hard to control for chopping.
To get more backspin (against loops) you need to brush fast but with light contact. If you're not getting much backspin off a loop, I would guess you're most likely not brushing fast enough... you need to brush faster than the spin on the ball, or else you'll take spin off.

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010, 19:50 
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I agree with Haggisv,

P1r is a good option. You could also go for FLII or Donic Akkadi L1. As far as I am concerned, I played with these 3 rubbers and the best for chopping is the L1 which I play with (for me).

Cheers,
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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010, 19:55 
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@Haggisv. I have tried the P1-r and it is a very good chopping rubber, but I failed to be consistent with it. Some chops went much to high and some wnt under the table, mostly depending on very small differences in bat angle. Also it was very difficult to block with those times I got caught at the table. I need to practise more than once a week if I want to use that again (but I might have the same problem with Dtechs).

My problem with the back spin is a little difficult for me to explain in this language. I do get lots of back spin when chopping with normal movement. It's when I get a very spinny and slow loop to my BH and I chop with full force (both arm and wrist), brushing as fast as I can, that I have this problem. My guess is that the pips both bends and get back to normal position during ball contact, so that the pips somehow kills the spin during ball contact. I have the same problem when pushing over the table with an open bat. The trajectory indicates that the ball carries a lot of spin but it's a no spin ball.

I have been reading about Donic Akkadi L1 (now on sale at ttex.se in Sweden, but not nearly as cheap as it was at Eacheng). That could perhaps be my answer.

My current "to try" list:
Double Fish 1615 0,8 mm (probably with a Blutenkirche sponge) but I wonder if it is as grippy as my 388D
Dtechs 1,2 mm (or with Bluten sponge)
Donic Akkadi L1 0,6 mm.

Problem is that I don't want to try more than one, it takes to much time to adjust and I don't hav emuch time to practise...

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2010, 20:07 
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Marathon Man wrote:
I agree with Haggisv,

P1r is a good option. You could also go for FLII or Donic Akkadi L1. As far as I am concerned, I played with these 3 rubbers and the best for chopping is the L1 which I play with (for me).

Cheers,
Ma'man



I have never tried FLII. But I know it is expensive and I have heard that Dawei 388D-1 plays very similar (or was it 388D???). But I am very curious about Akkadi L1. I read a post saying that Donics own sponge was softer than the one attached when bought from Eacheng. But that actually sounds better to me. Have you tried Dtechs?

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2010, 02:51 
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1.6 mm.Grass DTecs :up: highly recommend ..
no experience with 1.2 mm version...


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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2010, 06:17 
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Thanks for advices. Just got back from training and used my thinner sponge (0,6 or 0,7 Blütenkirche). Don't know if it was because of my birthday or because of the sponge but I played a lot better. Defeated som people I have had som serios trouble with before. With the thinner and more dead sponge the pips fells more stiff and that really enhances the spin reversal. I had some problems with pop ups, especially when returning serves. And I chopped a little long occasionally, but over all, it felt very good.

I am still very curious about Dtechs 1,2 mm and Akkadi L1 (I would have to buy it ox and put it on my Blutenkirche sponge I think). But I have my first match in our league this sunday and then another match on monday. I will wait 'til after these matches before I decide what to do. Now there are three main options: stick with what I have, try L1 and try Dtechs. Well.... to narrow it down it is a question about if I should fight the EJ or not :)

Is there anyone who has tried all these three rubbers and can compare them?

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2010, 07:02 
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Happy Birthday Def! :party:

Hope you bought some nice LPs as gifts for yourself :rofl:

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2010, 07:05 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Happy Birthday Def! :party:

Hope you bought some nice LPs as gifts for yourself :rofl:


Thanks alot Reb! Maybe the best gift would be to find out I should stick to my trusted Dawei 388D ;) We'll see....

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2010, 10:36 
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the best thing i ever did for my chopping game was have a go chopping with short pips, they require extremely light fast and very wristy touch (watch ding song play) and are much better at changing the spin then long pips, the stroke required to chop properly with short pips is the same one required for chopping with long pips except that with long pips there is a larger room for error because of the general insensitivity to spin, after switching from short to long, the angle of the bat messes you up for a bit, but the idea of light touch gets stuck in your head.


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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2010, 15:18 
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leatherback wrote:
the best thing i ever did for my chopping game was have a go chopping with short pips, they require extremely light fast and very wristy touch (watch ding song play) and are much better at changing the spin then long pips, the stroke required to chop properly with short pips is the same one required for chopping with long pips except that with long pips there is a larger room for error because of the general insensitivity to spin, after switching from short to long, the angle of the bat messes you up for a bit, but the idea of light touch gets stuck in your head.


Yhat would be very interesting to try, I actually have a sheet 802 in my "bag of fun". I also have a sheet of 563 ox. I could try that on my soft Avalox sponge... Hmmmm. On the other hand, I guess I need a rather large room for errors. I guess my 388D has got about the largest room there is. I guess I would have to adapt to smaller and smaller rooms before turning to short och medium pips. And the first one to try there would be Palio WP midpips on a thin sponge.

But for now I will stick to LP. Still haven't decided which one though...

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2010, 17:41 
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Well.... I did it. I just ordered one black Dtechs 1,2 mm from http://www.vrocosport.nl/

I consider this to be a birthday gift to myself, and therefore it does'n matter if I really will replace my trusted Dawei 388D with it, and I can still try Akkadi L1 a little later. I think L1 is more similar to 388 and I want to try something a little more different. Just for the fun of it :)

Now again... The Wait (I really like Metallica's verison of that song :) )

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