OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Over the past few years I've tested and used dozens of LPs -- both OX and sponged -- but I've always been fundamentally opposed to Grass D.TecS, both for its frictionless properties and also its high cost. Then, last Friday a player at one of the local TT clubs I play at gave me his near-new sheet of Grass D.TecS red OX because it didn't suit his game (USA 2200). He had attached it with the supplied Tibhar glue sheet so I used that as well, noting that it adhered to my blade with much more stick than the Donic glue sheets I normally use. I mounted the Grass D.TecS on a BBC ULTRA Blue Streak with 999 LSZ on the other size.. total weight about 150g.

On my robot it immediately became apparent that Grass D.TecS was unlike any Chinese or Japanese LP I'd used before. Balls would leave the LP in perfectly straight lines regardless of how I had tried to impart spin. These beeline balls looked plenty ugly with reversal obviously high. Grass D.TecS was faster than I had guessed it would be, though considerably slower than my current LP of choice, KTL Stranger 1.2mm.

Trying my usual LP strokes was frustrating because I use my LP's offensively to manipulate spin or to drive the ball with topspin. Grass D.TecS was nearly impervious to my manipulations, preferring to leave my bat at its own angle and then proceed away on a perfectly straight course until skidding off the other side of the table.

Chopping with Grass D.TecS was better than with the other strokes I was trying but I didn't get the impression I was getting much backspin on the ball. Side chops were almost entirely ineffective with the ball just going straight as if I hadn't dialed in any sidespin at all.

Against other players at my TT club today, all struggled and I won more games with it than I would have guessed, being totally unfamiliar with it and the techniques it needs to perform its best. My normal BH TS drives and flicks were mostly failing because I couldn't lift the ball well, and when I did manage to get some lift I generated very little spin to get the ball to curve back onto the far side of the table. Chop blocks were quite effective and very easy to deliver. Slidey ugly serves were also easy to do and they proved difficult for opponents to attack.

Despite using the same blade as with my usual Stranger 1.2, my game was obviously much slower with Grass D.TecS and I found I was quickly playing 99% defensively, though since I was forcing a lot of mistakes I was still winning points.

All in all, Grass D.TecS is not an LP I particularly enjoyed using though I may keep that bat in my quiver for matches where I'm totally outgunned as it can be a playing field-leveler against some opponents. And on a final note, Grass D.TecS's durability is clearly not equal to robust LPs like Pogo, 755, or Stranger, as I've already got numerous partially-broken pips after just an hour or two's worth of play..

If you like the Stranger with 1.2 mm sponge maybe you should try the Grass DTecS with 1.2 mm sponge, which is what I've just started using. It makes lifting against backspin easier, but beware, it also makes it faster.

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"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

When chopping against loops, there is no other LP (in OX) which 'generates' more backspin than the Grass Dtecs for my strokes, and it's clearly more than just reversal, as there are other pips with a good reversal.
So I suspect you need to adjust your strokes to get the most out of this LP, which may not be something you're willing to do, as other pips clearly suit your current style better.

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And like I always say if you want to use lp for winning matches you use dtecs, it is far beyond any other legal pip in dodgyness, how its legal I have no idea but it is so make the most of it.

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Donic defplay senso
Haifu whale soft (grips-euro)
Nittaku pimplemini 1.0mm

Or may be red D-Tech OX didn't suit your Seemiller grip.

BTW, mine is black (I traded with a sheet of Long A with a forum friend who is also a member of our club who use D-Tech exclusively with numerous BBC blades) and I have been playing with it off and on for over 6 months now, still no broken pips.

2 sheets of dtecs across 2 years and no broken pips.

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Tango Ultra 2mm black, DMS Storkraft 1.6mm red, DMS Invictus
Well done bat!

I agree as far as durability is concerned. It is not a good pip for lifting. Not easy to control but I have not ruled out returning to it in the Summer.

Bulldog.

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Tibhar Stratus Power Defense
Tibhar Evolution ELP
Tibhar Grass DTecS Ox

I am still holding out...

I never use Seemiller grip when using the LP side; I use standard shakehand. Seemiller grip is reserved for serving with inverted, and for blocks and punch-drives with inverted.

Hmmm. I don't agree with you on the lifting. I found it perfect for lifting especially backspin.

Durabillity I agree: 3 weeks. I played it in ox and 1,2 mm.

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brokkie

Yes I also find it great for lifting backspin... it works best on faster blades. I also find it highly durable... strange how there can be such wide ranging opinion on durability... Either we have 2 types of very different hitters here, or there are less durably batches out there.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

What do you consider lifting? I'm referring to using a BH LP topspin flick or drive to arc the ball over the net when it's below net height..

Lifting is not usually the terminology I use, but I was referencing brokkie's post who used that word, which I interpreted basically as hitting a backspin ball. I agree that it is not effective at "BH LP topspin flick or drive to arc the ball over the net when it's below net height"

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I was thinking of making a similar post like the startpost but since the thread is already here I'll just reply here. I also tried many different long pips over the last few years and always came back to Palio CK531a. I also tried many different blades but have been playing the Galaxy/Yinhe T-10 balsa/carbon blade pretty much all of the time. I never tried D-tecs(I was not playing when D-tecs were introduced, and never bothered to try because of the price and also because I was happy with my CK531a)

A few months ago I was in Thailand(another post about that later) and the local TT shop had a good deal on Grass D-tecs so i bought a red 1.6mm sheet. I was a bit excited to try the D-tecs but the first experience was horrible. 1.6mm sponge was too fast on the T-10. Back to the hotel room to remove the sponge. This didn't exactly go as smooth as planned, I used 2 bottles of acetone, I tore the rubber and some bits and pieces of the sponge still left on the rubber. But finally I tried the D-tecs in 0x. Although it played better than the 1.6 version again not happy with the rubber. Too fast compared to my CK531a and it did not seem to produce and difficult balls. I removed the sheet from the blade and never used it again.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. I have been improving my game a lot lately and I was pretty much at the limit of the CK531a/T-10 combination. Lower ranked players did not have any chance to win against me, similar ranked players hardly ever beat me but the higher ranked players were a problem. I had perfect control with the pips up to a certain point. The problem most long pips players will have experienced is how to return the fast first incoming attack from high level(ranked 50-200 in Holland) players. Even with the fast T-10 blade this went fairly well but as I said this combination was at its limits. I could prevent the fast first attack sometimes by placing the ball well and I could return a fast attack sometimes but the next ball as a fast attack again. I decided I'd try something different and went through my collection of blades and rubbers. I tried my Hallmark Aurora blade with Donic Bluefire M2(great rubber BTW, superb spin, good speed and still good control) and the sheet of D-tecs(which looked horrible with bits of sponge and glue everywhere and the rubber almost fell apart). Some years ago I played with the Aurora for a while but the CK531a was nothing special on this blade and the FH was too slow with Dawei inspirit quattro allround.

The M2 is much faster than the Inspirit so this was a definitely an improvement. The D-tecs horrible as they looked played very very very good. Control was amazing, blocking close to the table went well even on fast incoming balls and spin on chops was fantastic. 2, maybe 3 spins is the most any attacker so far could achieve. After that either a short ball, no spin lift or straight into the net. My game has improved even further. Easier to block fast balls, easier to do a hard direct push, lifting the ball is great, the ball stays low all the time, huge amount of spin on chops and most importantly a few "easy" points against pretty much any opponent. A nice bonus is the M2 which works very well on the Aurora blade. All in all this bat is much slower than the blade I used for years but I can play a more aggressive game against high ranked players.

To make a long story short, sometimes it pays to revisit blades and rubbers you tried before. Nowadays inverted rubbers are so fast you can create a big speed difference between FH and BH using a slow blade with fast rubbers. Very happy with this setup, so happy that I ordered 2 more Aurora blades. I was pleasantly surprised with the D-tecs on the 3rd try and in my opinion there is no rubber I have tried that comes even close to the amount of spin/reversal on chops and chop blocks. 2 rubbers that come to mind that may be close but which I have not tried are Joola badman and TSP Curl P1r.

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Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

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Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

At Tuesday social practice there's an old (like literally late 80s) LP warrior who has used Dtecs since the frictionless ban. He's been telling me for years that I need to move to the darkest of the darkside. He plays on an offensive Andro carbon blade with Calibra on his BH and Dtecs on his FH. Over the last couple of years I've tried his blade out a few times, but never got on with it - I found it too fast, and too difficult to control, compared to the LP I have used and know well (Dornenglanz, Sanwei Code, 755, Pogo). However, last time we met, we spent a good 15-20 mins together with him showing me some of his nasty LP serves. I tried to do them, but wasn't having huge success. He asked to try my setup (Dornenglanz on a non-carbon 7-ply offensive Andro blade), and while he could still do the serves, he was nowhere nearly as dangerous. I had a go on his, and I could do the serves. We played a few shots, just with the LP on my BH, and I started to feel like I might get the hang of it, and I could see that it was a pretty seriously disruptive option.

Yesterday, at a tournament, there was an attractive money-off deal, so I bit the proverbial projectile, and bought a sheet in black, which went on my P700. After a few hours it was dry, and I'd finished my tournament games and had time to practice with a fellow I'd met in the morning.

Overall, my impression is it's faster and harder to control (although that may be a function of the P700 being faster than the HiLoom), but has even more reversal and disruption than the Dornenglanz. I played for about 30 mins, and felt like I was starting to get the hang of it. My chops seemed pretty loaded, and my chopblocks were nasty. There's definitely something in this Dtecs business....

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