OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I've been playing for a few weeks now with the Double Fish 1615 (OX) on a Joola Toni Hold White Spot blade and though I'm aware that there is a very good review of this rubber in 1.0 mm (http://members.pcug.org.au/~dean/lp-rubbers.html ) I want to add something about the OX. Dean mentions a slight lack of directional control with the 1.0 mm; I haven't experienced the same with the OX - as with longitudinal control it is very precise. I didn't experience a lack of touch or feel, either; it is, in my view, a sensitive rubber. Spin reversal is just great and really very close to Neubauers Inferno, even if the 1615 is a grippy LP. On chops it adds backspin of its own. It can be used for attack, but I think it is especially well suited to mid-distance and long defence. It is also very cheap, it costs just over a third of what you would pay for a Butterfly Feint Long II (look at www.presports.com).
Then again, I'm not a defense specialist. Perhaps some of you guys who are should try this rubber out and see whether it actually is, as I think it is, a very good choice for those who are looking for a successor to their frictionless LP. If so, it might be added to Haggisv's stock...

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Without opponent, no match.

Thanks for the feedback Kees!

I tried out this rubber few yeas ago, and although I would probably experience the rubber differeent now since I've tried a much wider range of LPs since, I though the rubber was OK but not all that special. Although I found the spin reversal quite good, it did not give me the feeling of control... which of course is differerent for everyone...

The sheets I got all had some inperfections on them, some of the rows of pimples did not line up well, which immediately gave me the impression of poor quality control, so we have not considered carrying them since.

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I've got 2 sheets, nothing wrong with either of them, so maybe Double Fish has better quality control nowadays or maybe I got lucky.

I have not played with a rubber used by pro's, like Butterfly Feint Long II or TSP Curl P1R, so I can't compare the 1615 to them. Then again, the word is these top-rated rubbers are difficult to use, for beginners anyway, so I probably have no business in trying them out. I have played with Friendship 755, 837, Dawei 388 D-1, Meteor L-8512 DEF, Milky Way 955, Palio CK 531 A, which are all pretty cheap and have pretty much the same speed (6), and I have tried out a Neubauer Inferno from a friend of mine; so far, I like the 1615 best, mainly for chopping. My guess is that it is a pretty good rubber for beginners, but you could argue that it is better to spend some more money and buy a pro rubber on a not too thick sponge, say 0.5 mm, because in the end you would come to that kind of rubber anyway. Maybe they are even better to begin with, because they are slower - at least the P1R (around 4). Wouldn't that be something to sort out, sum up in good advice, and add to the pips site? Why let guys like me spend their money blindly, eh? Come to think of it, I've certainly spent more on cheap rubbers than even a P1R would have set me back...

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Without opponent, no match.

Hi Kees,

I have played 1615 1.0 for quit some time, except that mine is munufactured by Prasidha. I think Prasidha is a Hong Kong based rubber company and don't know whether they are related with Double Fish or not. Anyway, my sheets of 1615 are well manufactured, no problems of defects. I like it very much except for durability problem, at least for me. As I reported on other post here, the pips will break after a maximum of 4 days for me (I played a lot, just hitting and banging the balls like crazy). Heck, we broke a Double Happiness 3-star ball every hour or so.
I did solve the broken pip problem, found a better version of Prasidha, the Prasidha Long-A, and it costs 3 times as much as 1615. It is still worth the money, because I haven't broken one pip yet since I bought it last November.
Other than available in Hong Kong, I don't know where one can get this rubber.

Tat

My friend and colleague tested this rubber just yesterday after having tried with Juic Leggy, Neptune, Bomb Talent, TSP P1R and some other more. He comes from playing with HallMark Friction Special (with great results) and TT Master Insider. As Kees suggested some time ago in his prophetic post, my friend considers it the best he's tested so far (in OX) to substitute the frictionless rubbers. It's true that he has to adjust a little to spin and he has to learn to read better spin-no spin balls, but for being just the first day he was really happy and impressed with the results. He could control nicely my spinny services with his Imperial Balsa blade, and above all his blocks to my loops were demolishing.

A good cheap try for someone searching for new sensations.

Q.-

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Blade: Butterfly Legout
FH: YinHe Saturn 2.0 38º
BH: Meteor 8512 0.5 mm OFF

I'm finding 1615 OX to be an excellent LP for attacking play.

I'm able to execute blistering BH roll strokes with decent consistency. It's also excellent at serve return as well as service. Reversal is quite high, and deception is up there with the best of the LPs I've been testing (Bomb Talent). Similar to Palio CK531A but perhaps less sensitive to incoming spin. I beat a player at my club today for the first time today (in consecutive sets!) that I have lost to 3-0 on numerous prior occasions. The difference was serve return as he serves with huge backspin that typically overloaded my other pips. 1615 OX handled them np.

I think in OX the 1615 does especially (or maybe only?) well on typically Chinese hard and (from the point of view of a defender) relatively fast blades, since good reversal is its main quality, together with good control. I've tried it on a Joola Feyer-Konnerth Light blade (European style balsa/limba, speed about 8 out of 10) and found it much less effective than on a Friendship Black Whirlwind (speed about 7.5) or a Tulpe 7007 carbon (speed about 9). I have also used it on a TSP Fitter Reflex Combi DEF blade (speed about 6) which is softer than the Friendship and the Tulpe, but harder (top-layer) than the Joola F-K L, and although it works reasonably well for blocking close to the table and chopping away from the table, it seemed to produce a bit less backspin on chops; attacking was harder, too, and for a reason I don't understand control seemed to be slightly less also. So, on slower blades I've come to prefer the Meteor 8512 DEF or the Dawei 388. Probably the best way to use the 1615 OX is how Lo Chuen Tsung is using it, on a rather fast and hard blade in combination with a fast and very spinny inverted rubber, blocking or chopping topspin attacks on the left side in order to slow the opponent down and create opportunities for his own attack, using the LP for attacking pushes and the inverted for everything else, alternating extreme backspin with extreme topspin.
On sponge, however, it is a different story. I've played with it on its 1.2 mm (black top-sheet) green sponge, which was pretty hard and fast, and this did extremely well on defensive blades. Hard or soft wood didn't seem to matter. Reversal was huge. Creating own spin was OK too. But control was low; at least I found the rubber very tough to handle this way. But that was about 2 years ago, when I didn't play much in a defensive style; perhaps it would be easier now.

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Without opponent, no match.

Kees,

How's this blade for fast and hard? 7mm solid cypress core skinned on both sides in carbon fiber with one side minus its final mahogany layer for maximum LP effect (apply 1615 OX here). This was an experimental -- probably not rules compliant -- prototype from a local blade maker. We named it the Anvil because it hits like one!

Wow! I like it!

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FH: Joola Express Ultra Max, BH: Giant Dragon Talon OX , Blade: Nexy Hannibal
FH: Tibhar Sinus Alpha Max, BH: Tibhar Sinus Alpha Max , Blade: Nexy Hannibal

I concur with the above observations. 1615 is an excellent all-around pip in OX. I've been experimenting with it on and off for the past 8 months and everytime I come back to it I'm impressed

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Nathanso wrote:
Looks good indeed. How much does it weight? About 105-115 grams? And why would it be illegal? If because of the missing wooden top-layer, you might put it on still, for I don't think it will make much of a difference; Mahogany is very hard itself and (with the right kind of glue) a very thin layer of it can't really lessen the effect of the Carbon, or that would be my guess. You might also put on a softer top-layer, to use it for the inverted, and put the LP on the other (Mahogony) side. I'm just thinking out loud here, really, because I admire the experiment . I built a couple of penhold-blades myself a few years back, just to find out how a blade works, different layers interacting and so on, but I had trouble finding the right kinds of wood and gave it up completely when I found out I liked simple/basic Chinese penhold blades (like the DHS PF-032 or almost any Friendship or Globe blade) well enough. Still, if you are able to make your own, that's perfect, right?

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Without opponent, no match.

Joo wrote:
What type of game (tactics, strokes) do you play with it, Joo?

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Without opponent, no match.

Kees, It weighs around 93g. Yes.. my read on the ITTF rules seemed to indicate the topmost surfaces must be wood, but you're right: a paper-thin veneer attached with an epoxy-like glue would not detract from this blade's hardness. With Outlaw max and 1615 OX this paddle's fighting weight is sub-150g.. just where I like it.

Nathanso wrote: Remarkable! You must really have the right kind of wood!

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Without opponent, no match.

Not me, CWS TT. You'll undoubtedly be hearing more about these remarkable hand-crafted blades that I have been fortunate enough to help test over the past year. Hint: Anyone remember the Asti CarboFlex and master blade maker CW Smith?? He's baaack!