OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Kees wrote:

I have been under the impression that SB produces maximum spin reversal. On the other hand if an opponent doesn't give much spin, then SB isn't effective at all. In that case, rubbers like XY 979, Palio and Insider will perform better than frictionless rubbers such as SB or Original. Only problem with rubbers like XY 979, Palio and Insider is that one will find it hard to play close to the table. To play effectively with XY 979, Palio and Insider, one needs to cover a larger area of the court.

Regarding the cost of rubbers, I personally think that the prices of some rubbers have been inflated. The cost of a rubber doesn't necessarily reflect its effectiveness.

GR I don't quite understand what you mean by this, especially the second part. Can you please elaborate on it because I would have thought the area of the court was the same no matter what rubber you use. Are you saying you need to further back to use them and therefore you have to move wider and back in to hit some balls?

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

I found that frictionless pips were very effective to play at the table as they were very slow. One can chop, side spin, lift the backspin and counter attack by just staying close to the table. As the grippy rubbers are bit faster than FL pips, so one has to move more backward, forward, to the left and to the right in order to have a good control and return the ball back to the opponent. I think as a result of this one will naturally cover a larger area of the court.

Thanks RTTE for the query; and I hope that I have explaind it reasonably OK.

GR, with "dead" I meant it didn't add speed of its own; I didn't refer to spin.
As for Palio etc., you actually can use a number of Chinese rubbers more or less the same way as you would use SB, especially the Palio (several websites/forums name the Palio as the best alternative for dr. N's forbidden frictionless pips). You have to compensate a bit for the slightly higher speed-values (you can do this by relaxing your wrist more on impact, "catching" the ball) and for the higher spin-values (adjust the angle of the bat a bit, use your wrist actively for chop-blocks or lifts, and so on, assisting the rubber in continuing the spin). There is no real need to back off the table.

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Without opponent, no match.

Thanks GR, I do understand what you meant perfectly now.

However, I tend to agree with Kees that there is little need with the Palio (I haven't used others) to move away from the table much, unless you want to. The only thing I find perplexing is why people think the Palio plays close to frictionless. To me it has plenty of grip and I can "hit" with it quite hard.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

Reb: I think it's because the Palio blocks well that people compare it to frictionless, which used to excel when blocking. You can use it in a similar style.

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Equipment Review Index
Joola Turbo: FH: Joola Peking (2mm) , BH: Joola Peking (2mm)
Another one bites the dust.

Palio CK531A is definitely not frictionless rubber. This rubber works well on the Palio defensive blade. Thickness of the blade and the size of the blade seem to be just right. Its speed is jut right for the PalioCK531A rubber. One can hit well with the backhand and right handside. It is a wooden blade and the quality of wood used seems to be quite good.

Some defensive blades are either too fast or too slow. This Palio defensive blade is just right for speed and provides excellent control. Flare handle of the blade makes it very comfortable to hold it in the hand; and its weight is just right.

I finally got a sheet of xiying 979, it think it's great. I couldn't tell you how well it blocks against loop or pushes against push, but for my chops it's superior for continuing spin and placing the ball. It's not as dynamic as globe 979 but i'm okay with that.

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Equipment: Matsushita PowerDefence, Spin Art 1.9 black, Xiying 979 ox red
Style: American | US Rating: barely 2000

Kees, I believe that you have the fast version of the Xiying 979.. In black color, there are 2 versions with completely different properties.. The standard slow version has super hard pips and is extremely slow, compareable to Superblock.. The fast version of the rubber has much softer pips and is twice as fast. The easiest way to know what version you have is by looking at the logo area.. If it's open like PALIO (with no pips left and right of the logo area), you have the fast version.. If there are pips left and right of the logo area, you have the slow version.. I've played both and love the slow version and really can't handle the fast version at all.. Even on a super slow balsa blade, the rubber is way too fast.. It's like night and day.. 2 completely different rubbers.. Unfortunately on recent shipments, I received mostly the faster version...

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

I've recently tested the red Xiying 979 on a T. Hold blade with no sponge. My version comes with pips beside the logo and has very inelastic pips. The rubber plays very slow.

Description
The relatively short pimples are about 1.7 mm long and 1.8 mm wide, The aspect ratio ist about 0.94. The pips tips are rough and from manufacturing produces a little "ragged". The horizontal distance between the pips is like many LP usual about 1.0 mm. The pimples are fairly non-elastic and the tips are very grippy for a LP.

Wood / Combo
Since the coating has very non-elastic pips, the racket / ball is in contact shortly. I glued the rubber on an extremely slow wood, the Joola T. Hold. The absence of the sponge, I expected a little damping on the slow wood and the wood itself for maximum control.

Serve and Return
Serves with medium-length and spin-variations are very dangerous. Serving in the long FH, long BH or to the middle is less dangerous as too slow. Long serves of the opponent can be defended or offended controlled. The reversal is not very high. You have to push with a flat blade because this rubber plays similar to backside-rubbers when returning. The flip should be stronly accelerated.

Push
The push creates for a LP unusual rather much backspin. The push with the vertical blade and a forward movment has fairly high disruptive effect and I had the impression that some balls very nicely had fluttered. The tendency of the rubber to a higher throw it becomes dangerous. Such balls can easily be shot down from the opponent.

Flip, Counter and Drive
Flip on BS-balls works well, as long as sufficient acceleration in the stroke is present. Counter and driving strokes are working good if the wrist is much in the game. The ball should be taken rather tangentially and not too centrally. Of course, there is very little speed in it. That can lead to confusion by the opponent. Since the throw is sometimes difficult to control, I wasn't able to shot constantly with the 979.

Block, Chop-Block
It's very easy to block by simply holding out the racket. I didn't expected that. The balls are amazingly short. The sooner the ball is stroked, the shorter the ball can be blocked. Against aggressive attackers the passive block is a real weapon and is ideal for the preparation of the own attack with the FH. Active Blocking has been difficult to accomplish and is less controlled beacuse of the strange throw. If you caught the opponent on the wrong foot, is the active block still very efficient. The chop-block is probably the highlight of the coating, which comes with less reversal and a low rebound. This must be no disadvantage. The control for this stroke is compared with other LP very high and the control with T. Hold almost a dream.

Long Defense
This rubber has not the highest reversal but it's very safe in the long defense. It is really dangerous for the opponent when the ball can be played very flat. Against hard topspins it's difficult to play with a flat throw. That rubber plays more safely against hard shots and topspin at the table. The long defense is, however, an alternative, which is always an additional option in my opinion.

Conclusion
If somebody prefers a controlled pips-game on the backhand and is able to attack with the forehand, that rubber is very cool. You can easily vary the speed of your passive strokes and confuse your opponent. While playing over the table this rubber must be played somtimes like an inverted (pushing, blocking).

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Cheers, Martin

DMS Spinfire OX | STIGA Hornet | YASAKA Cobalt OX

Great review, thanks Martinpsin!

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Pushblocker wrote:
I wouldn't know . The rubber is red, by the way, but the pips are pretty soft/elastic. I think it is about as fast or slow as a Friendship 755, maybe a bit slower. Like Martinspin I've played with it on a Joola Toni Hold White Spot, but both OX and 1.0 mm. All in all, Martinspin's review fits in with my experience...

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Without opponent, no match.

I recently received a sheet of black ox from OOAK.

First impressions is that it has a noticeable heavier weight in the packaging (clear plastic packaging), a closer look the base is very thick and comparable to the yasaka cobalt a and the dr evil. Turning the pip upside down the base is grooved checkered.

Usually with ox I try not to glue the pip as it does tend to kebab or curl, when applying VOC stiga victory glue. In this case I did glue it... there was an ever slight reaction to the glue and coming back to the pip after 10 mins or so it has returned to normal with no increase in stretching.

The pips are quite big.

I didn't notice any speed difference initially compared with meteor 8512, chopping long distance was less reversal and was a much lower throw, good control.
Short game was quite sensitive to incoming spin though I need to practise with it more longer, it does not feel that it is uncontrollable, but more on my skill.
blocking was definitely much better, the big plus is the lower throw on the blocks but it has less reversal than 8512, relitavely same speed but can cushion harder impacts better as I think due to the thicker base, where as the 8512 would normally shoot up to high and easier for opponent to take advantage.
Hitting is what really shines and it really feels like playing with the cobalt again.

Plays more like a medium long pip, and feels like P3.

Active players on the BH should give this go.


Cheers

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the re-evolution of war
Bty Gergely Palio Macro Era 42.5 Max DHS H2 Max

This is the reason I stopped playing with it. I thought I would be able to adapt to the extra grip, but I never really did. (You will see what I mean when you play someone that has spiny serves.)
It is sensitive to spin, but apart from that I agree it is a good rubber.

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FH: Joola Express Ultra Max, BH: Giant Dragon Talon OX , Blade: Nexy Hannibal
FH: Tibhar Sinus Alpha Max, BH: Tibhar Sinus Alpha Max , Blade: Nexy Hannibal

This is a rubber that needs to be broken in. About 20 hours of beating dusty robot balls is necessary for improved performance.

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