OOAK Table Tennis Forum

i have tried Dornenglanze and couldn't get used to the rubber.. very little braking effect when blocking hard shots. It is also too hard for my taste.

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

In that case it sounds like Agenda will suit you a little better. They are quite similar, though, for me at least. It'll be interesting to see how you like it!

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Blade: Japsko Allround+ | Forehand:LKT Pro XT 1.5 mm | Backhand: Lion Rebirth 0.6 mm
Blade: TSP Black Balsa 3.0 | Forehand:Friendship Fx Supersoft 1.8 mm | Backhand: SpinLord Agenda OX
Blade: Stiga Hypertech CR | Forehand: CTT National Strike 2.0 mm | Backhand: RITC 802 1.5 mm

I'm using Talon OX. I like it, but have a problem handling fast balls, they 'pierce' through the pips, and the pips don't work as they should. I hope Agenda OX doesn't have such flaw.
(please forgive my bad English)

Tried the black Agenda and it was too fast for me. I like the feel but it is too fast for me on my blade. I will try the red version soon as also will try the black version on a slower blade.

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

That strange because people said that the Agenda is slow. Please could you compare Agenda OX and Talon OX in speed, reversal and spin generating abilities? Thank you.
Which blade and ball you using while testing?

^ +1
May ask also a little comparison between Agenda OX and Cloud & Fog 3 OX?

I think that when playing the rubber actively (i.e against slower shots), the speed is very similar with talon even being a little faster.. However, when blocking, the Talon has the "braking" effect and the Agenda does not have it and the ball goes long against powerful shots. As for reversal, it has little to no reversal when blocking at the table and moderate reversal off the bounce. The reversal usually improves with use.. I'm using it on a Firewall Plus (Dr. Neubauer)

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

Cloud & Fog is slower in my opinion. I actually do like Cloud & Fog 3 a lot.. Good rubber.

However, Cloud & Fog does not have the braking effect like Talon.. For me, the rubber that brakes most is Sword Scylla but it is very fast and does not have the reversal of Talon. Talon brakes great and has good reversal. The original D.Tecs bas braking the best but since they shortened the pips, it blocks long and the trajectory is high now.

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

(Little OT)
It's nice to hear good things about c&f3, I got a bit curious about it.
I'm using Talon ox for a while in classical defence and it's funny to chopping with. it's faster than the neptune 0.7mm, has better deception and produces odd trajectories, and the control is overall good (but not Best I think). I wonder if c&f3 ox, being a little slower from what I read, can be that Best control pips with nice deception (like the talon) that I'd love to have in my arsenal... sounds like it deserve a try...
(Sorry for the ot)

Going to try out this rubber soon for a mix of mid-distance chopping and close-to-the-table blocking. Does anyone have a sense of whether I should try it out on the Victas Koji Mastushita or on the Defplay Senso? (I like the Victas blade more for chopping with a thick-sponged LP, but I'm wondering whether the more flexy Defplay Senso will be better for OX.)

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

Had a chance to play with this rubber for a week now. So, I've playing for awhile with a TSP P-1R 1.3mm on my backhand, which I've used largely for classical defense, but my at-the-table game with my backhand (chop-blocking and attacking with pips) has always been pretty good, and I've noticed that against many over-2000-level loopers, I win more often when I mix in some at-the-table points/shots with points/shots where I play further back. The problem, of course, is that my TSP P-1R is not meant for at-the-table play, and while I can chop block with it, it requires a very closed racket angle, a very loose wrist, a ton of touch and a very small margin for error. So I thought I'd try an OX rubber so I can mix chop-blocking into my game more, while still doing a lot of mid-distance chopping. The Agenda seemed like a good option to try for this.

I found that chopping (which I was worried about since you're generally going to give up something in the chopping game in moving to OX) was fantastic, and to my great surprise, I found more opponent balls going into the net than with my TSP P-1R. My theory is that this is because of a greater difference in the spin on chops vs. long-pips pushes than with the TSP P-1R, so that opponents had a harder time adjusting to the difference in spin. As long as I kept my wrist pretty loose, chopping was remarkably consistent and easy. Whereas with the TSP P-1R, I had to be very careful about what I was doing to avoid errors, with the Agenda, the ball almost returned itself, and the trajectory was always low over the net, so that it took some effort to get the ball up higher, which I occasionally want to mix in because I find that high, deep balls with heavy underspin into the backhand corner force a LOT of errors, even from good players. (Generally, loopers train on low underspin, not high underspin.) The problem I'm having with the Agenda thus far is that I haven't yet figured out how to chop-block consistently. As other commenters in this thread have said, it can't seem to control strong loops. I'm actually finding that I have LESS control of strong loops in chop-blocking than I did with my 1.3mm TSP P-1R, because with that rubber, if I had just the right closed racket angle and a loose grip, I could get even the spinniest loops back (the problem, again, was the amount of precision and touch this took), while with the Agenda, I'm finding that while returning low-spin loops at the table is easy enough, against strong loops, a closed racket angle nets the ball while a more open racket angle causes it to sail long. Of course, I'm using this rubber on a chopping blade, not a blocking blade, but I still feel I should be able to do a bit better than I've been able to do thus far in chop-blocking since, after all, this is OX as opposed to 1.3mm. I'll try again tonight (and possibly tomorrow as well) to see if I can find a solution, but I'm also probably going to try out some other LPs. Have the Joola Badman OX on order, since I know that can be used for both chopping and blocking. Other possibilities include some of the other Spinlord rubbers (Dornenglanz OX and Hellfire OX), the Sanwei Code 1.0mm, the Desperado OX and the good old Palio ck531a OX.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

Evidently I need clarification of what "braking effect" means, because I thought it was a rubber's abilitiy to absorb power, and slow down the pace of balls given...aka "Slow".

Can someone clarify?

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

...maybe relatively to the shape of the pips, and the right degree of grip of them, that allows to "contain" the ball? :/

With "braking effect" I mean that the rubber has the ability to significantly take pace off the ball when blocking. This doesn't necessarily mean that the rubber has to be slow. Look at the old "DtecS" and the Talon.. Those rubbers are fast long pips rubbers when you actively accelerate a ball but when you passively block a hard shot, they absorb a lot o the pace from the incoming ball and keep the return short.. So, a rubber with good braking effect is very slow when passively blocking but pretty fast when actively accelerating the ball. Examples of such rubbers are Talon, D.TecS, Scylla, Snowflake and Globe 979 (but Globe does not absorb quite as well as the other 4)..
Those properties are usually found on extremely long and very soft long pips.

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

I have the Agenda OX from 2 weeks.
This is the best long pips rubber for chopping I ever tried.
It pairs very well with my Nittaku Endless (outstanding blade for chopping).
With this combination I get more net balls than first. More pleasure and feeling in every shot.
Joined in a tournament last sunday and I reached the 3rd place with my new racket.
Really happy. I hope the Agenda will last long time (if yes, it's a perfect long pips).