OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi.
First of all I want to welcome You all. I'm new user of this forum but I was reading this forum a few times. Sorry for my language mistakes
I play with blade made on my request (speed: all+ on fh and all- on bh). On bh I play Tibhar Grass DTecS 1.2mm and I want to change it to TSP Curl P1R. I play classic defence in mid-distance (if it is possible) for one year. I learn it how to enforce opponent to make hit that is possible to chop
My problem is that Grass on 1.2mm sponge is too fast for me, especially near the table. I want to change pimple to P1R because I think it's better for player who trend to play classic defence bh and topspin fh. I listened P1R is slower than Grass and I don't know if I should buy P1R on 1.0mm or 0.5mm sponge.
What is Your advice? Which thickness should I choose?
Greetings from Poland

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Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 No.22 Blue Sponge 2.15 41d
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 max

Hi rocket, welcome, i'll try to share my opinion, even if i think there are better users than me to help you.

P1-r is already slower than d.tecs by itself, so you may very well keep 1.0 mm thickness. A 0.5 mm rubber will be quite different from a 1.0 mm rubber to play. By the way it is indeed a wonderfull rubber for classic defence, in my opinion the best overall if you are a good player

Keep in mind p1 is quite different from d.tecs, not only "slower" (p1 is quite dead, grass is bouncy) but also quite grippier-spin sensitive, so if you like how grass plays but you want it slower, you can try it with the new 0.9 or 0.5 sponges.

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My Paddle
Blade: Butterfly Defence II FL
FH: Bluegrip V1 2.0 (red)
BH: Grass D.Tecs 1.5 (black)

Thank You for your opinion.
I'm not very good player, I play table tennis for about 4-5 years but my play evolve very slowly. My fh is getting better and better last months. Maybe it's caused playing LP on bh and I have more time to move to do FH topspin. As I wrote, I play LP for 1 year so my technique is't very good.
I suppose that DTecS is LP which gives more variation than P1R, but is less spiny. My play consists on spin, not variations. That's why I think that P1R should match to my style.
P1R is slower and softer than DTecS. So difference between Grass 1.2 and P1R 1.0 should be perceptible or minimal?

_________________
Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 No.22 Blue Sponge 2.15 41d
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 max

If your technique isn't very good, then the Dtecs will play with you, not the other way around.

You can go to the P1-R, but if your technique isn't very good, you might as well try the 0,5mm version.

I think you have it the other way around. P1-R, being a grippy pip, provides more variation than DTecs. That is: if your technique is good. I suspect your chopping technique is still quite passive and for that Dtecs will give you more spin and variation than P1-R.

My advice: don't go to the P1-R 1mm just yet, but try the 0,5mm or use something similar to Dtecs, but less dangerous: Cloud&Fog III 1,0mm. The latter is still quite fast, though, so if you're looking for less speed, then it's a no go.

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

x2
Or, you may want to try the Galaxy Neptune

My chop style is... too active? My coach talk me that my move is too long, I should do shorter move and when i will be better and better I should do longer move And when I make this long move, spin is very good while choping but I have sometimes problem with placing ball on the table because it flies in the net or behind the table. That's why I want to change my long pimple.
Is 0.5mm version good for choping style? I played also P3aR OX and it was very hard to chop, spin was also worse than DTecS 1.2. Only pushes were easier to do.

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Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 No.22 Blue Sponge 2.15 41d
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 max

It's long, but probably not very active at contact (i.e. acceleration). That's why your coach says that. I don't agree with your coach ,though: it's harder to make a short chopping stroke a long one than to make a long one more active. I think the 0,5mm version will be good for you. It requires a long stroke. I don't think a short stroke does work with that thickness. The ball needs to be lifted over the net as a matter of speaking due to the slowness of the rubber.

That thickness is ideal to learn the chopping style. The better you get, the thicker you can go.

P3alpha3 is very different from P1-R and IMO is not designed to chop with.

Oh yes: forgot to say it in my previous post, but welcome to the forum. You'll love it here.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

I came back to PR-1 after 5 years of LP training. I can control it more than before. It is a very specific way to chop with it. IF you like vertical chop (stroke from the shoulder to the knees ) the pips just give a catapult effect that send the Ball upward so the chop is more downward. It create fantastic chop that are very diffiicult to lift back. Then if you can do the same shot but finish by a push that create float ball, you will create headaches for your opponant not knowing what is in your ball.

An other shot that can be made is hitting the loop ball as it rise after the bounce. You hit it around shoulder height and shop donward. Sometime against a slow high arc loop i find myself attacking it as an offensive shot nearer from the table. The ball look is weighting a tons of brick. The only way the opponant can return the ball is to lob the ball back and then I smash it ! (see chen weixing)

But it is not an easy rubber. 0.5 will be best for you as you play mid distance. After being in full control with it you can go on the 1.1 sponge that will chop the ball harder and faster.

After yesterday training my coach... was shocked my play and advised me not to change my LP
He was suprised my improved chopping and pushing what are my main weapons

My feeling is that my LP is too slow when opponent hit the ball slowly and I want chop it. However when best players in my team make heavy topspin it's nice to chop but sometimes it's hard to place ball into the table, it goes behind the table if I am too close to table.
Apart from that my DTecS 1.2 doesn't forgive mistakes on the table and it's biggest problem i think. When I make correct push it's very dangerous for my opponent but I am still a bit accustomed to inverted rubber and on the table I sometimes play like inverted rubber, not LP.
My expectation is to LP forgive me little mistakes. My play depends on inverting spin so LP has to provide as much underspin as it's possible

_________________
Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 No.22 Blue Sponge 2.15 41d
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 max

My experience with P-1R was very strange. I started with OX, then moved to 1mm. It felt too fast in 1mm and I was chopping balls long off the table. So I compromised and went to 0.5mm. I spent quite a few months with that thickness and felt the whole time that it played almost exactly like OX. Very little difference, but I managed to keep the balls on the table more often with the thinner sponges.

Fast forward several months and I had decided to revist the 1mm as my chopping prowess had improved. It felt perfect, and instead of faster it actually felt "Slower" and more "absorbing." It was as if the sponge was cushioning the power rather than catapulting.

Months later again, I EJ'd on a second defplay, as I was trying to develop an offensive LP style and glued back on the P-1R 0.5mm. However, this time when chopping with the 0.5mm, suddenly felt MUCH faster to me because the ball was hitting the blade. I was suddenly sending chops long! Intrigued, I decided to practice with both to see why my perception of speed could be so far off with nothing but time being the only variable.

Here's what was happening: P-1R in 1.0mm is grippier than 0.5mm. The reason I was sending my chops long with the thicker sponge is because my stroke was underdeveloped, sending higher balls, with less spin, causing them to sail long, which gave me the "Perception" that the speed was more, but it was not. On the contrary, it was my bat speed that was not sufficient enough to deal with the grippier LP. The 0X and 0.5mm are far more slippery, and thus was much more forgiving of my poor technique in terms of stroke speed, and so the passive nature of the LP helped me prevent the balls from sailing long. This is why many suggest starting with thin/no sponge.
When my chopping technique improved, along with bat speed, the grip was no longer an issue and I could control the balls far better. And now, due to the grip, I was playing with varying the spin, where as the 0.5mm sent the same spin no matter how hard I chopped. On the other hand, the thin-sponged version didn't cushion the loops of higher level players, and thus, felt "Faster."

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

I decided to buy P1R 1mm and I'm after 1st training. My insights: it's harder than DTecs 1.2 in feeling, slower, gives more underspin while full-lenght chopping, it's easier to slice the ball on the table when it's higher than the net level (it gives much underspin, like inverted rubber ). Regarding chopping game it is very strange. I think I do the same mistake I was doing while looping. Before my coach advice I was doing move like in this picture:

Sometime I "brushed" the ball only but I wasn't hitting it. Now effectiveness increased much sound of hit is another.
Do you think I do the same mistake while chopping? Which move is correct, this 1 or 2?

It's good that my technique mistakes showed up after 1 year of playing LP not 4 years like inverted rubber wrong loop...

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Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 No.22 Blue Sponge 2.15 41d
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 max

I think move 2 is correct. I also made the same mistake, and i still tend to make it in many shots.
When chopping, expecially with LP, you have to also accelerate a little forward to engage the rubber and control the ball correctly, not only brushing with the surface of the rubber. It's the same with inverted, but since most people and almost every pro uses fast and grippy inverted rubbers their move is usualy much more vertical when they chop with inverted than with pips, expecially because they also confront with strong loops that they need to tame.
I'd say you have to "push down" the ball, not only brush it to continue the spin

IMHO Japsican's post had great truth. Since he developed a good chopping (somehow inverted like) tecnique that makes him work on the ball with the rubber, the thicker sponge started to work better for him, whereas for most of beginners and people who only use much wrist and a short move relying more to the pips than the sponge 0.5 or OX feels easier and more effective.

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My Paddle
Blade: Butterfly Defence II FL
FH: Bluegrip V1 2.0 (red)
BH: Grass D.Tecs 1.5 (black)

Thank you for Your opinion, I would get one more about correct move while chopping. I know what You mean writing "push down" the ball I noticed the same problem.

_________________
Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 No.22 Blue Sponge 2.15 41d
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 max

Great question! I had the same question! you know what I found? BOTH are correct! It just depends on the ball you've been given and the grippiness of your pips, and the speed of your chop.

With grippier Long pips:
More spin means the chopper needs a more vertical stroke, because the ball will pop up a little on a grippier pip. OR, stroke 2 is correct, if you have the handspeed to compensate, otherwise it will send the ball very high if you use that angle and have a slower stroke. So, learning to read the amount of spin is paramount.

Also, your positioning determines the angle as well. If you are close to the table, you will need a steeper angled ball, and thus option 2 is (more horizontal angle) is the correct option. And typically if you are getting a ball close to the table it is less spinny, but not always. If so, then you need to take the ball higher than the table and commit a more vertical (option 1) stroke.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

And that's my problem because most of my chops are vertical. If I play with man who does relatively slow loops with little of spin I should use option 2 move because there is not enough momentum to hit the ball. If opponent does fast loop (hmmm... normal loops ) move shuold be vertical I have to take care about improving this move and I'm sure my game improve very much

_________________
Butterfly Timo Boll Spirit
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 No.22 Blue Sponge 2.15 41d
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 max