OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have a Tachi blade with the 'old' Grass Dtecs OX on the backhand. The rubber is getting very worn now. At the fairly high level that I play at, I come across a number of players with a very spinny forehand topspin, and my Tachi and 'old' Dtecs combination enables me to block the ball off the bounce and return the ball very consistently. It feels like I am cushioning the ball when I block it back, and my returns go very low.

As the 'old' Grass Dtecs is not available any more, I have tried various blades with different OX long pimple combinations, e.g the new Grass Dtecs, Talon and Spinlord rubbers etc. but whatever I try, I can't keep very spinny topspins on the table consistently enough, and block them long sooner or later.

I have decided to buy another Tachi blade, and to try and find a suitable OX long pimple rubber for the backhand blocks that are a major part of my game.

Please could anyone who has used the Tachi blade with the old Grass Dtecs let me know which rubber on that blade they have found to be the closest match to the old Dtecs in terms of blocking very spinny topspins back low and consistently.

Thank you.

I've used that combination for a while. Personally I did not find the new dtecs to be that much different to the old one, so I've persisted with the new one. Of course a new sheet it's going to be considerably grippier than an old worn sheet, so it might take a while to wear in.

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Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
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if you play just for fun and not play for tournament you may inbox me, I will give you a nasty simple easy to do without using any toxic liquid suggestion to make your rubber dangerous to your opponent.

for experimental player only.

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BTY Amultart, BH: Superblock red OX, FH: Tenergy 05 2.1mm

Giant Dragon Dragon Talon NATIONAL TEAM OX.
That's what I'm using now and it's the closest to the old version of D.TecS.
Regular Talon is close but NATIONAL TEAM Talon is the closest to D.TecS.

You can get it at

http://www.ttdd.de/GiantDragonlange-noppen.html

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

I know that some players didn't notice a huge difference but for me, the difference was huge. Against not so powerful opponents, the new version was similar but I noticed the following MAJOR differences between old and new DTecS.

1) higher trajectory
2) when blocking powerful loops, my blocks would go long as the shorter pips did not cushion/brake the ball as much when blocking. The old D.TecS had a huge braking effect while the new version was not anywhere close.. Sure, if I would play lower level opponents, the new version would work fine but once I played with the new version against power loopers, I would block everything off the table as the ball would bottom out against the bottom of the pips as the pips are shorter. Against medium speed, new Talon still has the best reversal of any rubber but it's the inability to take the pace off the ball when facing powerful opponents..

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

.

I know it is old topic but it is so relevant to my current problem. Has anyone used by now new Grass Dtecs OX and Dragon Talon National Team on Tachi?
Many any years ago I played with old Dtecs OX on Re-Impact Tachi and did not like this combination but I mostly chopped from a distance then.
Now I have to play closer to table due to health problems. I like it so much though it is not easy transition to a new style.The problem is that both my old rubbers (red and black) lose pips very quickly and I have to switch to something available.
Pushblocker likes Dragon Talon National Team but on Firewall Plus. haggisv likes Dtecs OX but with Re-Impact Barath.
I want to stick with Tachi as I cannot afford another Re-Impact and Firewall Plus is too fast for me now.

I use a Dr. N Titan which was made by Rendler and close to the Tachi (prefer the Titan but just slightly in a comparison with the two). Have not used the old Dtecs OX but recognize its characteristics. The closest I have experienced on close-to-table attack have been Giant Dragon Cropcircles (difficult to find in the US for unknown reasons) and Globe Mo Wang. Compared to Pogo, 755, Spinlord Dornenglanz, et al, the rebound angle is lower and with high control. My problem with the others was that, if I was forced into a passive block, the higher, slower return gave opponents ample time to kill the return. The balsa core in the Titan/Tachi makes slow impact returns short but, equally, if with a high rebound with the wrong lp, easier for high level opponents (particularly with the new 40+ poly ball).

I am a close-to-the-table LP blocker (have been for 15 years), and have used a variety of LPs on my backhand. I have used Giant Dragon Cropcircles in the past, which did return nice low balls, but it was NOT good for passive blocking. If you chop block with an active wrist, Cropcircles can serve you well, and give good aided reversal when you chopblock loops. However, chop-blocking is not my style of play.

I recently switched blades, and bought a Re-Impact Smart blade. I don't think it is too dissimilar from the Tachi, except that the Smart is a bit faster. On this blade I mounted Spinlord Dornenglanz (original, red) in OX. The angle of rebound is wonderful, producing a nice, low shot off of all but the spinniest loops. Now, granted, the harder the loop, the more one has to "relax" their hand to absorb the pace, but the ball still stays nice and low. And on slow, high-arcing spinny loops, one does have to close the bat a little bit more, and take the ball a bit higher off of the bounce. I will add that you can also chop block with Dornenglanz. In the past I had a few durability issues with the original Dornenglanz, but the new sheet I bought has lasted me 3 months already and I haven't lost a single pip. And I absorb some pretty hard shots from my practice buddies.

Many of the Rendler blades are designed in such a way that, the harder the incoming shot, the flatter the rebound trajectory will be off of your bat. This is one of the things I love about the Rendler blades. Now, does my ability to return nice low shots come from my Smart blade alone, or does it come from the Dornenglanz LP, or the combination of the two? I am not sure. I have not used other LPs on my Rendler blade beside the Dorrnenglanz. All I know is that this particular combination of blade and rubber produces a good low trajectory. For a few years I used Giant Dragon Talon on my BBC 9/10/9 blade (Blades By Charlie, out of California), and that also produced a nice low trajectory. BUT, the Dornenglanz with the Smart blade is even better, and the Smart blade responds wonderfully to even the slightest variations in touch (relaxed hand), as I am guessing your Tachi blade will also.

My advice to you is to try a few different sheets of LP. I'd start with the Dornenglanz or Talon, as those are cheaper. If, after giving them a thorough testing (be sure to give them each several weeks of testing!), they don't work for you, then try a sheet of Cropcircles. Since you are changing your style, you may have to go through a number of different rubber sheets to find what is right for you and your new style. And, you are doing the smart thing by asking for advice on this forum. I can tell you that I have learned a LOT by asking questions here, and it has saved me a lot of wasted time and effort.

Good luck to you, Perthax--both with your health issues and with your new style. Also, be patient as you adopt a new style!

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USATT rating - 1999

Blade - Rendler Smart FH - Hurricane 8 hard black BH - Grass DTechs OX red
Blade - BBC 9/10/9 FH - Hurricane 8 black BH - Dragon Talon OX red
Blade - Hallmark Aurora FH - Hurricane 8 black BH - Joola Badman OX red

Thank you epictetus and JimWeiland.
I have old sheets of Dornenglanz and Talon which I have used mostly with Matsushita Pro Special and DrN Firewall+ blades.
Matsushita Pro Special with Talon has been my favorite blade for many years. That's changed over a year ago when I was forced to play closer to the table with occasional chops from mid-distance.
Firewall plus with Talon has been really good for this style. Now is time to modify my style and setup again.
I like your suggestion, JimWeiland, to start with Dornenglanz. I will try it on Firewall. Dornenglanz is rated as a slower rubber than Talon so it may work well for me.
After I loose more pips from my old D'Tecs (I really like this rubber now) I will try Talon with Tachi. I've also ordered a sheet of Talon National Team.
I struggle with chop-blocks but have improved much my passive blocks using Tachi. Any tips?

You're welcome and second JimW's remarks on a relaxed hand/wrist to improve both passive and chop block. You may also wish to start the chop block with a vertical blade cocked upward and right behind the incoming topspin.

As an added suggestion--perhaps it's running before you walk--for your close to table strokes, I played this weekend against long pippers, including Danny Hill, about 2100-2200 USATT and a lp coach at the Triangle TTC. Danny uses 755 on his bh with a Gambler Kevlar defensive blade. At close to the table, he uses a vertical blade with upward movement against incoming topspin to produce a fairly powerful return against both bs and ts. It's a short stroke, perhaps 6-12 inches, but quite effective in confusing opponents who get accustomed to lpippers passive/chop blocking.

Lastly, if your timing at the table is very good, try side swiping your strokes on both sides. Part of your close to table tactics include confusing the opponents so as to produce that return that allows your forehand to end the point.

Best to you.

Does he use sponge underneath the pips?

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The above comment by JimW—“is it the blade or the rubber”—struck a nerve as I was dissatisfied by my performance in a recent tournament. Having a Donic Defplay Senso on hand with Spinlord Dornenglanz I on the backhand, I took it to the robot for a comparison against my tournament DrN Titan and Globe MoWangII. OMG, suddenly shots with the Defplay/DG were great! But suspicious about the great looking blonde that makes your long-time companion look tired, decided today to make a serious effort to decide whether “blade or rubber”. Caveat: this is for my strokes, my tactics (close to table attack with inverted/lp, aggressive with the lp, ie not a pushblocker by personality and preference, rarely chop from distance).

Titan+DG I versus Titan+MoWang II.

Since opponents mostly come in the power looping variety, placed the robot at low, medium and high topspin and full speed. Strokes were mainly passive block, chop block, side swipes, and loop drives against the topspin. At the beginning I thought there were differences in the rubbers but, having made a mistake thinking I had DG on my bh and not MW, continued by blind test on both. Sorry, folks, there’s little difference. Returns were low in both cases, the drives were no-spin/light tspin returns, and I could hit the targets equally well with both. Both are great lp rubbers with the MW slightly cheaper.

Titan + MoWangII versus Defplay Senso+Dornenglanz I

Having determined there was little difference for me between MW and DG, put the DG on the Defplay. My expectation was that on high impact, hi topspin returns the balsa core Titan would go beyond the table at the same blade angle. The only question was whether Achim Rendler’s veneer on the slow backhand side would be stronger or weaker than the defensive Defplay. In terms of feel: the feel of the Rendler Titan is soft, smooth, with great feedback; as if you’re in control. The Defplay reminded me of my old Gergely and T-2: hard, unforgiving but with the memory that I had great lp success with them (previous balls). At high impact, low topspin, there was little to distinguish returns from either blades in passive, chop blocks, sideswipes, etc. To be honest, I was hoping that at high topspin, high impact the Defplay would wipe the floor with the Titan (save me some $$$ and the damnable soft balsa+veneer that keeps chipping). It didn’t. The best test was that of hitting targets between the two blades: with the Rendler, the better control allowed you to hit the targets with confidence no matter the degree of topspin. The Defplay accuracy in placement was much less. Trajectory was low for both but the Rendler gives that added confidence, of placing that lp return where you want it. Can play with both (+ the MoWang or DG) but the Titan adds one more dimension for my style of play.

Thinking about it, the results just emphasize the value Chinese coaches put on the importance of the blade. The Defplay is no slouch and, if money is an issue, easily the choice when you’re starting out. But for higher level play against hard hitters, the Rendler Titan/Tachi is the better. (Achim: have you thought of offering restoration services? With $500 invested in your blades, I shudder with every chip, thumb imprint on the soft balsa handle, etc. and wood filler is not a satisfactory solution).