OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Since it has now been exactly four years since I joined the OOAK Forum, and because February 29 is such an odd day, I felt that I needed to celebrate the four years by posting something interesting. So, I picked a catchy title and chose a topic that is interesting to me.

One thing that I found particularly fascinating about the OOAK Forum is the tremendous knowledge of its members about the science and engineering of table tennis equipment, and how the properties the table tennis rackets, balls, etc., apply to playing table tennis. When and how did table tennis players acquire this vast knowledge?

When I joined the OOAK Forum, because of my past in table tennis, I mistakenly thought that I would be one of the more knowledgeable members. After joining, I quickly realized how wrong I was. I found out that I knew next to nothing about table tennis equipment.

In my competitive years, in the 1970s, when table tennis was a huge part of my life, I rarely recall people talking about the technical features of table tennis equipment. Perhaps I missed it because I was a teenager and interested in playing and not learning about table tennis, but I don't think so. I assume that the answer to my question is simply that these changes arose because of the internet. Now there is so much access to information, people sharing their knowledge, etc. I assume that a secondary factor is the proliferation in the number of table tennis companies over the past forty years. For example, forty years ago, if I recall correctly, there were primarly two types of inverted rubbers, Yasaka Mark V and Butterfly Sriver. With the much greater diversity of rubbers today it is beneficial to have greater knowledge of the equipment to make a more informed selection. Is my explanation reasonable?

On the other hand, perhaps the knowledge in the science and engineering of table tennis equipment hasn't gone up as much as I think. Perhaps the most knowledgable table tennis players are mostly here on the OOAK Forum. Anyway, for me, it has been fascinating to learn so much of the inner workings of table tennis equipment from many members of the OOAK Forum.

Four years ago, when I joined the OOAK Forum, I was recovering from my second completely ruptured achilles tendon injury. I was away from table tennis for 25 years, and I had practiced just a few times before the injury. At that time, while still in a boot with crutches, I decided that I wanted play modern defense, in the style of Joo SaeHyuk, which included both chopping and counter-looping with Tenergy on my forehand, not the classical defense of my past. I am certain that I would not been have able to choose the correct equipment, and especially learn how to successfully play modern defensive table tennis with that equipment, if not for the OOAK Forum.

Steven

_________________
Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX 1.9mm
TSP Curl P1R 1.4-1.7mm
--------------
Returned to table tennis September 2011
Canada National Team Member, 1973-1975
--------------
1972-1987
Brickell Balsa/Birch 3-ply Blade
Yasaka Mark V 1.5mm
Joola Toni Hold AntiTopspin 2.5mm

Haha, great post. I agree, very knowledgable people here. I too would have been lost without these guys.

It seems many of us coincentally work in either science, or jobs that heavily rely on a science background. Many of us have worked, or currently work in research as well. I wonder if there is a correlation there? (You see what I did there? )

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

Steven, the proliferation of the internet is definitely at the source of this. Easier to share experiences between many people, easier to purchase different gear due to easier access to sellers around the world and therefore create more experiences to share. Then there is the ability for people of varying skills and walks if life to contribute their knowledge and opinions to enrich the information others have shared.

That dastardly disease of EJism also serves a large role within those shared experiences these days. When I played in the late 70's through to late 80's I was restricted to whatever the local sports store stocked or what 2nd hand gear a club member wanted to off-load (and my club had about 50 people). I had just 2 bats in that period (of course I was also a poor teenager which also restricted it ). Availability of equipment, information (and enticement) around the equipment is now huge with the net.

Obviously forums like this make up a big part of it, but also the cross-pollination of forums' information spread by people who belong to more than one forum and choose to repeat what they've seen elsewhere, makes even more people aware of things tat may otherwise have been kept to a smaller group.

Of course there are still people who don't frequent forums and don't buy gear from the internet (yes they still exist). But thhese people are often either guided by those who are forum members or by communicating with sellers in bricks and mortar shops (these still exist too lol). In fact I think the TT gear sellers have somewhat increased from what i can tell. This is probably due to more manufacturers in the industry seeking new channels for their gear. There is still "sports stores" like Rebel (in Australia) who sell premade TT bats and I'm sure there is a market for them of less knowledgable people who are not serious TT players who just buy gear to play in a garage. We'd probably call these people ping-pong players though

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

I do also think that a lot more technology has gone into equipment, especially in the last 15 years or so, so the differences and variety in equipment is greater, so there is more to talk about.
This place does seem to attract the more technically minded people... not sure why, but it's definitely a very positive reflection on the forum!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I've always found that competitive table tennis seems to attract a more cerebral kind of person. For whatever reasons that may be.

I also get asked lots of questions at the club about equipment so i actively try to search out and ask lots of questions of suppliers about things like the correlation of rubber qualities and effect/play styles.

Mostly though thats just to get the player not spending $85 a sheet of BTY Tenergy if they don't have to, most don't need it anyway to have fun. I don't use it as I'm too cheap and the M2 is close enough.

That said this is a GREAT gateway to all things Table Tennis! It has helped me many times fill the gaps in my experience and knowledge.

_________________
CORNILLEAU Hugo Calderano FOCO OFF+
FH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1
BH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1

The above quote and that of Japsican remind me of the demographics of my table tennis club, which is at one of the larger universities in the US. On a typical evening, we get about 20-25 people that show up, most of them being students. I'd estimate that the majority of these students are majoring in engineering. This is at a university where at 15% of the students are engineers. Also, the fraction of students that are engineers appears to be about equal between students from the US and those from other countries. Furthermore, almost all of the remaining students are science, math, or computer science majors. So, based on this small sample size, these numbers do seem to allude to the fact that table is particularly attractive to technically oriented, "cerebral" people.

Steven

_________________
Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX 1.9mm
TSP Curl P1R 1.4-1.7mm
--------------
Returned to table tennis September 2011
Canada National Team Member, 1973-1975
--------------
1972-1987
Brickell Balsa/Birch 3-ply Blade
Yasaka Mark V 1.5mm
Joola Toni Hold AntiTopspin 2.5mm

I don't think many table tennis players are even close to knowledgeable.

Read reviews of some popular rubbers on some websites. You will hear it's too slow, or too fast or not spinny enough or too spinny to incoming spin. You will hear how it has high throw, low throw, poor durability, great durability, tacky, not tacky. How it should be used on the backhand or the forehand. Endless! This is on the same exact rubber!

Truth is everyone has different technique, physical abilities and even the wood behind it matters tremendously. A huge percentage of equipment review and opinion is garbage to you and me.

You give people the internet and a question and they will give you an answer - even if it is worthless.

You know one of the few reliable sources of knowledge about equipment comes from the manufacturer themselves. It's without a doubt biased how good it is but within a line of product one can actually determine what the equipment does. The Tenergy line is maybe the best example. They have different rubbers and explain how they play differently. Butterfly even made a video trying to explain what the objective of a certain line of equipment is trying to aid. That actually helps. It does not help comparing brands - that's a mess.

I'd not be shocked if all ESN made rubbers are one of 6 types or so. You have 6 manufacturers making the same 6 rubbers - all with different numbers and such. Madness!

With that said I trust a few forum posters reviews (on this forum and mytt).

Yeah I concur - take a look at tabletennisdb - lots and lots of detailed reviews. When I actually use the rubbers I can barely tell the difference between a lot of them, the differences are more subtle than obvious. All I can say is X "feels better" than Y and I make somewhat more shots with A rather than B, and it's usually because I've been using X and A for the last couple weeks. I don't really know if a lot of manufacturer info is all that good, really - lots of purple prose that amounts to not very much in many cases. Take Andro, for instance. OK, there's information that MIGHT get you to choose one of the Rasants over another, but how do you decide between Rasant and Roxon and Hexer? Do descriptions like the following:

"Modern table tennis is becoming more complex day by day. To enable you to keep step with new trends, we designed andro XXXXXX. During the development of this fourth generation TENSOR BIOS rubber we focused on the factor precision. The progressive, spinny surface structure gives you the feeling of leading the ball for a longer time during the stroke and bringing the ball to its target point. Topspins and counterspins on highest possible level hitting the target precisely (High Definition Performance) will become an important part of your repertoire. The powerful catapult and speed gluing effect for which TENSOR BIOS rubbers are famous for provides Hexer HD with the certain power so that you do not miss speed and feedback. Extend your game with the factor precision – discover XXXXXXX!"

or

"Play constant and pinpoint strokes even out of inconvenient positions! YYYYYYYYY’s micro-fine surface structure and its high grip level reveal best spin potential. Optimized surface design for consistently stable and immediate interlinking of ball and rubber. Optimize and define the ball-curve by yourself! Explore the limits of physics! Exhaust the coarse-pored medium sponge and its catapult-effect!"

help?

It's MUCH worse with Chinese brands! You can't get a simple answer when you want to choose between the various forms of Hurricane/TG3, for instance (and maybe there isn't any sort of simple answer because they're all very much alike! ).

Also, about blades - there's a lot of mumbo jumbo going on when it comes to "dwell time" and "flex", if you judge by some of the discussions we've been having. What some people claim is "hard science" is nothing but. No experiments were done, no instrumentation (strain gauges, oscilloscopes, high speed cameras) were ever employed, no actual data was ever presented. Some of these experiments have probably been done, but the likes of Butterfly haven't seen fit to share it with us (probably for good reason! ). It all boils down to what people FEEL, which is not the same as what actually happens physically.

Iskandar

Well,

Thanks God that everyone reviews almost ways based on what He / She knew before,

The score in ttdb can be mapped easily to play style class, using zscore.

For example,

"Defplay Senso is the best block and chop blade according to ttdb reviewers"

Sent from my S5G using Tapatalk

Crowd-sourced reviews might work for things like Tenergy 05, where you've had 200+ reviews. It doesn't work well for Emperor Dragon, where you've had maybe 3.

Iskandar

Reviews are fun to read, but you have to go through a ton of them if you are actually trying to buy something. They are probably most useful for people who have already played with many different blades and rubbers. Then it makes more sense if a review says "Blade D plays a bit like Blade S, but not as fast" or "Rubber E differs from Rubber T in these respects". When I was shopping for my current setup, I relied on these comparisons with the very few things that I was familiar with, to arrive at something close to the playing characteristics that I thought might be good for my game.

_________________
"Once you get past a certain threshold, everyone's problems are the same: fortifying your island and hiding the heat signature from your fusion reactor." –Doctor Impossible

RebornTTEvnglist,

Thanks for your response. It is very interesting to read about the many ways in which technical information on table tennis is shared, compared to the way it was 40 years ago. It really is amazing how one can get the answer to almost any question these days, no matter how obscure is that question. Forty years ago, basic questions did not seem to be asked. Now, with easy access to answers, one question can lead to more questions, and so forth, with answers readily available. This sharing of information is particularly useful for me, since I live in a small college town. One thing that I have found to be rather amazing, compared to the past, is the ease at which one can find people to play table tennis with when traveling.

When I returned to table tennis the term EJ was new to me. I got a bit of the bug myself, but when I started to use Tenergy the Curl P1R the bug was mostly cured. However, with all of the information out there these days, it is easy to understand where EJing comes from.

Steven

_________________
Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX 1.9mm
TSP Curl P1R 1.4-1.7mm
--------------
Returned to table tennis September 2011
Canada National Team Member, 1973-1975
--------------
1972-1987
Brickell Balsa/Birch 3-ply Blade
Yasaka Mark V 1.5mm
Joola Toni Hold AntiTopspin 2.5mm