OOAK Table Tennis Forum

tnx,

have you tried chop blocking? thats my technique, i rarely block passively...viper could be good for that if you say its softer and have higher grip...

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My TT blog
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Tried the Viper Soft OX on a Smart blade last night for the first time (only got the chance to use it for about 1/2 hr., so not long enough to get great sense yet), and it seemed like a very dynamic rubber, enabling lots of disturbing shots, especially when attacking, but I also had the experience that passive blocking on spinny loops (which I can do pretty consistently with my usual setup) doesn't work (though, perhaps, I need to close my blade angle more than the 90 degree angle I normally use), and I need to chop block to keep the ball on the table. This is frustrating because while I can certainly chop-block, I find chop-blocking to be inherently more error-prone than passive blocking, especially on fast loops, as the timing is so crucial. I might get the chance to play a bit more tonight and will see if I can make any progress in figuring this out.

(I cannot compare the Viper Soft to the regular Viper because I haven't used the regular version, as I prefer very soft long pips.)

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

I had more of a chance to try the Viper Soft OX on my Smart blade tonight and both practiced and played many games against a 2100 two-winged looper against whom I usually win about a third of the time, though it's been edging closer to 50/50 of late. I played some games with the Viper Soft OX on Smart combo and other games with my main usual setup (Snowflake OX on S&T Firestarter). I found the Viper Soft to be great for chopping away from the table, with a VERY low trajectory and lots of backspin. The Viper Soft was also great for aggressive pushing against backspin and other kinds of attacking. I found I could generate great pace and a nasty trajectory with many of my attacking shots. On the other hand, for blocking at the table, I found my regular setup to be far superior. It's certainly possible that my greater familiarity with my usual paddle is a factor here, but I just could not consistently land the ball on the table in blocking my opponent's fast and spinny loops when I used the Smart/Viper Soft combo. I tried both passive blocking and chop-blocking, and the ball still often sailed long. My next thought is to try the Viper Soft on my stiffer, harder Firestarter blade and see if I can get better results that way. I'd be curious to hear about the experiences of anyone else who's tried this rubber, though.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

Thanks TraditionalTradesman!
I changed from Dtecs to Viper (not the soft version), also on a Smart blade, and the greatest benefit of the Viper is that it was easier to block with, and it takes the pace off better. The Viper is still a relatively soft LP, so this might work better for you than the Viper Soft.
If the Viper Soft is even softer, it might be that the pips are just too soft to take off the pace, so the balls are getting a more direct bounce off the blade, resulting in landing them long.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
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You may be right, Haggis, though the Snowflake I regularly use is the softest LP I've ever tried, and I have no problem on blocks with it, which is why I think a softer rubber paired with a stiffer blade may do the trick. I'm curious what you and others will think if you try the Viper Soft, but it's also possible this may be a technique issue where I'm taking the ball off the bounce at a 90 degree angle (or sometimes a bit later if I'm chop-blocking as opposed to passive blocking), and maybe I need to be doing something else with this combo. I think I'll wait to hear what others say when they try the Viper Soft, but I'm a bit hesitant to move to the regular Viper because I really prefer soft LPs for the greater dynamism, funky effects and better off-the-table chopping ability they generally offer.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

I saw this review of the Viper Soft OX on a Stiga Allround Classic Carbon blade on a French forum (http://forum.tennis-de-table.com/t/dr-n ... ft/4784/23). I'll copy it here in French, so that anyone who's fluent can translate it if they want:



I never formally studied French but have picked up enough over the years to get the gist. The idea is that this guy found there to be absolutely no spin reversal on passive blocks and none on chop blocks either. (I disagree with the part about chop blocks, as did someone who responded to this guy on the French forum.) He found the rubber to be not at all disturbing, and saw its attacking abilities as its main positive point (with which I'd agree). He didn't try chopping away from the table (which, as I said, I did, and I think the rubber is very good for that). The guy who responded to this guy in the forum said that he did try chopping, and he thought the Grass D.Tecs was still better for that.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

As you can see by my Blade profiles I now have a Dr Neubauer Viper Soft red OX on the BH of one of my setups.
I will give it a good hit out on this coming Saturday afternoon then report back on how it went for me.

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Setup 1: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS acid green OX BH
Setup 2: Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango PS black 2.00mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS red OX BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Gigant anti-spin red BH
See the ball, be the ball...

Played with Viper Soft at the club last night for the first time. I have been using the regular Viper for the last few months as my primary pip. Both pips were used on a custom 2-speed blade made by Charlie Smith of Blades By Charlie. The backhand has a very hard black walnut outer veneer.

I was having good success with Viper but was intrigued by the softer pips and the possibility of adding more spin away from the table while maintaining the ability to attack. Based on my first impressions and feedback from my club mates, Viper Soft provides more flexibility for my game.

The attacking ability seems to be vastly improved compared to the previous version as I was landing more shots. I had more confidence and was able to utilize attacks more frequently. Speed on attacks was good but that is also the case for me with the regular Viper. Opponents remarked that the increased attacking capability of the Soft version made my game more dangerous.

Service return seems to be similar to Viper, fairly spin insensitive, as I did not have to make any adjustments. Spin reversal was only marginally less than Viper on passive blocks but I experienced a different behavior which did cause some trouble for my opponents. The amount of spin reversal seemed to vary and included some no spin returns. Perhaps the hard surface of the blade is factoring into the spin reversal.

Blocks were very controlled and had the same low trajectory as the Viper. Overall speed was slightly slower. I also had better control on blocks when I was out of position and could not take the ball off the bounce. Control was improved on all types of shots and I was also more consistent landing balls near the end line forcing some awkward returns.

Chopping at mid-distance did carry more spin as advertised although this is a fairly new part of my game. Chop blocks were also easier for me to control with more spin than the Viper.

Needless to say, I am very excited about Viper Soft. The regular Viper is a very good pip but Soft looks like it fits me much better.

Hopefully my first impressions will be lasting!

BTW, our club has a good number of OX pip players with a few above the USTTA 2000 mark. The core are in the 1700-1800 range. The club president is 1800+ with LPs (sponged) on both sides and mainly attacks! Most players have quite a bit of experience playing against pips. One of my club mates who usually handles my pips without too much difficulty (including the regular Viper) struggled against the Viper Soft last night.

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Blade: BBC ASYM Custom 2-Speed FH: Butterfly Tenergy 80 2.1 BH: Dr Neubauer Viper Soft Ox
Blade: BBC UBS Custom 2-Speed FH: Butterfly Tenergy 80 2.1 BH: Dr Neubauer Viper Ox
Blade: BBC Ultra Blue Streak FH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9 BH: Grass Dtecs Ox

After finding the Viper Soft OX bad for passive blocking on the Smart blade, I decided to try putting it on my old Reimpact Hydra blade. I tried it out briefly yesterday. Seemed much more controlled from some brief practice against a 2100 penhold looper (blocks stayed low and short and had sufficient reversal to be unpleasant to deal with, and chopping was very good, but chopping was good with the Smart blade as well), but I'll need more time to see how it pans out. Maybe will have a chance to practice a bit more on Sunday.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

Both of my blades are Re-Impact Smarts & so far during the 2 sessions I’ve practised with the Viper Soft the difference between it & the Viper have been minor. It’s a bit slower so it gives even more control, passive blocking I found to work very well giving great returns low over the net with deceptive placement, great against top-spin. There seems to be good spin reversal on heavy backspin with chop-blocking. I still have to practise more with my more attacking shots but with some working very well but more not working yet more work required.
Due to the fact that the Viper has worked so very well for me & I find them very similar a lot more practise is required before I decide to make it my main setup or not.
It’s a very interesting rubber; they both are, giving very good deceptive results while playing.
I will keep you informed on my journey.

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Setup 1: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS acid green OX BH
Setup 2: Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango PS black 2.00mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS red OX BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Gigant anti-spin red BH
See the ball, be the ball...

I tried the Viper Soft OX last night on the Reimpact Hydra blade (where I found passive blocking to be more controlled than on the Reimpact Smart). I practiced with a 2300+ looper and had him loop to my backhand. I used this setup and then switched to my regular S&T Firestarter + GD Snowflake OX setup to compare and make sure I wasn't imagining things.

What I found was that while chopping is great with the Viper Soft OX, passive blocking isn't. The ball regularly sails long on strong loops, whereas with the Snowflake on my Firestarter blade, it stays low. Chop blocks work well; it's just passive blocks -- holding the blade at about 90 degrees and taking the ball early off the bounce -- that I find ineffective. Perhaps it's something about my technique, if others are getting different results with the same setup, but if my technique is the issue, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, as I have no similar issue with my regular setup.

It's also possible that this might be the non-linear rebound off of balsa, which the Reimpact blades use. I will try the Viper Soft on the Firestarter at some point to compare.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

oh yes, you need to put in a lot of hours to get used to those thick balsa blades.

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The Dark Side: "Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda

Just a quick update. I have already lost my first pip and others look weak at the base after having the rubber only two weeks. It was not used heavily, one night at the club and a few sessions on the robot. I very rarely lose pips. Perhaps I got a bad sheet but maybe the softer pimples aren't as strong?? Did not have this issue with the regular Viper.

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Blade: BBC ASYM Custom 2-Speed FH: Butterfly Tenergy 80 2.1 BH: Dr Neubauer Viper Soft Ox
Blade: BBC UBS Custom 2-Speed FH: Butterfly Tenergy 80 2.1 BH: Dr Neubauer Viper Ox
Blade: BBC Ultra Blue Streak FH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9 BH: Grass Dtecs Ox

Contacted Dr Neubauer and they are sending a replacement sheet. Great customer service!! Carsten noted that they have not had any reports of broken pips. I am looking forward to a lot more playing time with the Viper Soft.

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Blade: BBC ASYM Custom 2-Speed FH: Butterfly Tenergy 80 2.1 BH: Dr Neubauer Viper Soft Ox
Blade: BBC UBS Custom 2-Speed FH: Butterfly Tenergy 80 2.1 BH: Dr Neubauer Viper Ox
Blade: BBC Ultra Blue Streak FH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9 BH: Grass Dtecs Ox

I have now had another 3 sessions with the Viper Soft & as stated before the differences between my main setup using the Viper are only minor. But at this stage the Soft for me has been unpredictable which in some cases has been good but also some cases would have been disastrous in competition.
At this point in time I will keep my main setup with the Viper but experiment more with the Soft because if I can work out the differences the added deception will be an interesting plus for my TT journey.
What I need is much more practise.

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Setup 1: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS acid green OX BH
Setup 2: Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango PS black 2.00mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS red OX BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Gigant anti-spin red BH
See the ball, be the ball...