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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 19:44 
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Hi guys,

I'm struggling to decide on what sponge thickness to use under my Long pips. The two long pips I'm testing out are Donic Spike P2 and TSP Curl P1R.

I don't know whether I should be using 0.5mm sponge, or 1.0mm sponge.

How do I make a decision on what sponge thickness I should be using? What difference is there between 0.5 and 1.0?

I'm going to be transitioning from the JSH blade to the Defplay Senso for a bit more control too, and these pimples will be tested on the Defplay.

Any advice would be appreciated. I just never know what the right sponge thickness to use! How do I make the decision to be right?


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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 20:47 
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Go for 0.5mm until you reach a high level... you'll appreciate the extra control and feel of the ball.

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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 21:30 
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haggisv wrote:
Go for 0.5mm until you reach a high level... you'll appreciate the extra control and feel of the ball.

What benefits would I get from going from 0.5 to 1.0 when I improve further?

Also am I likely to get more spin from the defplay rather than the JSH?


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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 21:47 
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Am I the only one who feel that it's easierto control LP with thick sponge that LP with thin sponge?

I am currently using LP with 2.0mm sponge (I stick a 2.0 chinese sponge to my Viper Soft OX). It's easier to block and hit with it compared to OX or 0.5 sponge which I feel that the ball bounces off immediately. At least with sponge I have some dwell time to guide the ball to where I want it.

But Im a penholder, so I don't chop. Maybe that'd the otherside of it.


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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 21:49 
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Just my opinion, 0.5 works with P1r very well. No need to ever change, just improve hand foot and stroke skills. Using 1.0 sponge makes your returns quite "normal" for the opponent, sort of "what you see is what you get". I've had players who know me ask if the 1.0 was really even long pips. With 0.5 you can change from super cut balls to empty balls, by wrist or no wrist.
No comment on Spike, never seen a sheet. :(

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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 22:25 
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genrel001 wrote:
Am I the only one who feel that it's easierto control LP with thick sponge that LP with thin sponge?

I am currently using LP with 2.0mm sponge (I stick a 2.0 chinese sponge to my Viper Soft OX). It's easier to block and hit with it compared to OX or 0.5 sponge which I feel that the ball bounces off immediately. At least with sponge I have some dwell time to guide the ball to where I want it.

But Im a penholder, so I don't chop. Maybe that'd the otherside of it.


No, but it depends on what you are trying to control and your style. Are you trying to control spin or speed? Many folks feel like sponge dampens and thus controls speed. But against very spinny players the control can be more difficult. OX affords control vs. spin and your blocks will have lower trajectory.

You probably think it's easier to control because your blocking style and angle is more tuned to inverted. If you learn to loosen your grip and play with soft hands, blocking with OX is very controlled.

PS, LPs on a 2.0mm sponge is likely technically illegal because of the over all thickness of the LP rubber+Sponge (Breaks the 4.0mm rule). But depends on just how long the LPs are.

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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 23:36 
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Ridderz, we are around the same level give or take, so take this advice for what it's worth.

But for me, when thinking about sponge size and LP there are 3 things I consider.

1- "How much do I rely on the opponents spin?"
Meaning, is my intent to borrow spin or manipulate spin? I think many of us are not honest with ourselves as to just how good our chop stroke is, and how much spin we are adding? Some of us aspire to create variation, but again often time we are not varying to the degree we think we are. And even if we do vary the ball from time to time, the amount of variation created is pretty minimal, even in thicker sponges. The place where variation is most notable is in the short game and vs. no-spin usually against players that are savvy on how to play LPs. But as Leatherback is fond of remind us, the spin is the least important thing to consider in chopping. Just keep your chops low and long, and your consistency should win out vs. the looper either with their error or with you being able to pounce on a ball that is ripe for an attack.

Also, if you are pretty descent at twiddling, your variation can be had there anyway.

2- "How much torouble do I have controlling spin?"
If I struggle to keep chops low and on the table vs. VERY spinny players...then i want a more slippery pip, and then thinner sponge is going to help. Also, if you notice an issue with chopping loops with lots of side-spin, thinner sponge is more controllable.

3- "How much trouble do I have controlling pace?" Vs. very heavy hitters, some people find OX too hard to deal with for chopping, and want to cushion the ball with sponge. Sometimes it's just for feeling and they want more dwell time. Sponge might help with pace.

If I really analyze my game and my level, I find that I don't struggle vs. spinny loopers till around 2100. But I do struggle vs. those with lots of sidespin, and so a thinner sponge is better. I also strugge vs. soft no-spin players and for me thinner sponge is actually more difficult, but I'm noticing that with practice that is getting better for me in both LP and Inverted play.

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 01:13 
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ridderz65 wrote:
haggisv wrote:
Go for 0.5mm until you reach a high level... you'll appreciate the extra control and feel of the ball.

What benefits would I get from going from 0.5 to 1.0 when I improve further?


More spin on active chopping. More spin variation on chops and pushes. But you'll probably loose some of it's passive reversal.

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 01:29 
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Japsican wrote:
genrel001 wrote:
Am I the only one who feel that it's easierto control LP with thick sponge that LP with thin sponge?

I am currently using LP with 2.0mm sponge (I stick a 2.0 chinese sponge to my Viper Soft OX). It's easier to block and hit with it compared to OX or 0.5 sponge which I feel that the ball bounces off immediately. At least with sponge I have some dwell time to guide the ball to where I want it.

But Im a penholder, so I don't chop. Maybe that'd the otherside of it.


No, but it depends on what you are trying to control and your style. Are you trying to control spin or speed? Many folks feel like sponge dampens and thus controls speed. But against very spinny players the control can be more difficult. OX affords control vs. spin and your blocks will have lower trajectory.

You probably think it's easier to control because your blocking style and angle is more tuned to inverted. If you learn to loosen your grip and play with soft hands, blocking with OX is very controlled.

PS, LPs on a 2.0mm sponge is likely technically illegal because of the over all thickness of the LP rubber+Sponge (Breaks the 4.0mm rule). But depends on just how long the LPs are.


As a hitter, what you said makes sense. Plus I broke too many balls when I used to play with OX.

I measured the rubber, it's exactly 4.0mm but that's just by caliper and ruler and not the real rubber measuring device. But most of the tournaments in my area doesn't measure rubbers though, so I think I'm fine. Hehe


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 07:02 
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haggisv wrote:
Go for 0.5mm until you reach a high level... you'll appreciate the extra control and feel of the ball.

i agree
0.5mm is best option
its betwenn OX and 1.0mm (OX is for usual LP strokes, 1.0mm behave almost like inverted)
with 0.5mm u can can borrw the spin, u can kill the spin and create ur own (a little).
with 0.5mm is u have high control

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:45 
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Japsican wrote:
Ridderz, we are around the same level give or take, so take this advice for what it's worth.

But for me, when thinking about sponge size and LP there are 3 things I consider.

1- "How much do I rely on the opponents spin?"
Meaning, is my intent to borrow spin or manipulate spin? I think many of us are not honest with ourselves as to just how good our chop stroke is, and how much spin we are adding? Some of us aspire to create variation, but again often time we are not varying to the degree we think we are. And even if we do vary the ball from time to time, the amount of variation created is pretty minimal, even in thicker sponges. The place where variation is most notable is in the short game and vs. no-spin usually against players that are savvy on how to play LPs. But as Leatherback is fond of remind us, the spin is the least important thing to consider in chopping. Just keep your chops low and long, and your consistency should win out vs. the looper either with their error or with you being able to pounce on a ball that is ripe for an attack.

Also, if you are pretty descent at twiddling, your variation can be had there anyway.

2- "How much torouble do I have controlling spin?"
If I struggle to keep chops low and on the table vs. VERY spinny players...then i want a more slippery pip, and then thinner sponge is going to help. Also, if you notice an issue with chopping loops with lots of side-spin, thinner sponge is more controllable.

3- "How much trouble do I have controlling pace?" Vs. very heavy hitters, some people find OX too hard to deal with for chopping, and want to cushion the ball with sponge. Sometimes it's just for feeling and they want more dwell time. Sponge might help with pace.

If I really analyze my game and my level, I find that I don't struggle vs. spinny loopers till around 2100. But I do struggle vs. those with lots of sidespin, and so a thinner sponge is better. I also strugge vs. soft no-spin players and for me thinner sponge is actually more difficult, but I'm noticing that with practice that is getting better for me in both LP and Inverted play.


Thank you, I really appreciate that. And I guess I will get more dwell with the defplay than the JSH so I should be able to get more spin on chops even with the 0.5 with the defplay.

I think I'd be best holding out at 0.5 for the time being. See what happens in the next few months.


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 20:03 
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0.5 mm assuming that You are using dampening sponge. Most LP using dampening sponge anyway.

Example for non dampening sponge LP is Feint AG and LKT Stranger Attack. ;)

I am being slaughtered by heavy hitter, cause I put Tuple Sponge behind my Stranger, 0.5 mm, which was too fast, and all bounce to next table.


:o

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 05:33 
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BeGo wrote:
0.5 mm assuming that You are using dampening sponge. Most LP using dampening sponge anyway.

Example for non dampening sponge LP is Feint AG and LKT Stranger Attack. ;)

I am being slaughtered by heavy hitter, cause I put Tuple Sponge behind my Stranger, 0.5 mm, which was too fast, and all bounce to next table.


:o

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk


I play with DMS Elimination with dumpening Toni Hold sponge 0.5mm

Image


And i use my personal methodology for mount LP on the dampening sponge, coz dampening sponge has a face glue sheet... not simple sponge... :envy:

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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 23:50 
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I used .5 with p1r and the chopping is pretty easy. Only hard part is hitting back shots with no spin which takes more practice.

If you use less sponge then you have more effect from your blade so also depends what kind of blade you are using.


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PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 11:33 
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Ragnolo wrote:
Image


Huh. They cut the corners off. Just like H3. Is there a "national version" with the corners intact? :lol:

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