OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have been using dawei 388d in ox on a joo blade for a while, previously p4 .5mm on a defplay. I wanted to have more attacking options near the table(faster hits and faster pushes, bumps etc) so I changed to cloud and fog in 1mm. Away from the table chopping I really like it, chops consistently and have good spin, can even create some spin from dead balls. Short game is not bad either although its quite spin sensitive. The problem I am having is drives and fast loops,when I am close to the table, most of the time my returns go long.
Tried chop blocking = goes long
inverted style blocking = goes long
more closed angle = go into net
closed with side swipe motion = 50/50
loose grip slight recoil block = much higher success but returns not very threatening and quite often land mid table

With the 388d I didn't have this problem I could use a variety of shots to return and also the p4 I didn't have much problem.
So far I have only had about 8 hours on this new rubber and I quite like the extra speed and away from table plays quite nice, has any one got any advice on my problem?
Should I be trying to block more actively in a counter hit type motion as opposed to passive? I'm lost for ideas

hi, it is very funny as I just started to play with it yesterday. I had it many years ago when I began to play with LP. I used to play with the PR-1 before I start to learn a stroke :

Some call it a " bump" or Pick it. ( The stroke is that I hold my racket upside down for that shot. The head of the raquet is vertically (90 degree) standing near the table. I then hit the ball from back to front and the elbow is the top of the pendulum pointing toward the other side of the table. The wrist is bent to hold the bat upside down. Depending of the height of the ball, the amount of underspin or no spin of the ball, I will swing/hit differently:

For high ball: The elbow is pointing down toward the other side of the table. The pendulum mouvement is more from back up to front down. I hit the ball while going down(55 to 85 degree). More underspin I ajust lightly less downward as the underspin received will turn into topspin thus creating a more downward trajectory.

For ball near net height the pendulum is ajusted for a back to front more horizontal and it it around 90 degree)

For ball lower than the net height I will have a pendulum from back down to front up hitting the ball around 95 degree and more if there is a lot of underspin.

You can also practice this shot by moving your wrist sideways to create side spin or sending the ball with more weird angle.

You can it from any side of your body. ( left or right). It has a better result when your right leg is in front ( for righties) and a good transfert of your weight from back to front.

You can look at Jian Li video on OOAK and you will see a master at this shot.


So if we go back to your question, C&F III is very fast when to put your weight on the ball. Against fast top spin ball the first thing is trying to chop it . Sideway will also lower the speed.

If you don't have the time for a chop than bend your knees ( eyes at ball level when you hit the ball) and do a closed light punch block. The result will be a float with weird bounce. Placement is of course the more important ingredient as player above 2000 will answer with a stronger loop kill. You can practice to do a closed backhand drive ( like inverted) as I succeed to do some and was surprise of it. The ball go very fast and the ball it the table if the bat is closed enough.

Stay in touch as we learn to master this lp.

I want to add that if you block like inverted but dont bent than your control is only with your hand. There is no force to it. To high angle of the bat the ball is flying out of the table or too low angle it goes into the net. Having a high stance will put to much weight on your closed bat and open the bat and your stance tend to go backward thus creating and upward fly of the ball.

For your info I'm about 2000 rating in Canada and playing with Lp for more than 7 years.

Generally speaking, any change in long pips, even similar playing types, takes an adjustment of at least 2 weeks playing 3 times a week, 2-3 hour solid sessions. During that time you will play 3-7 points worse in games. Any change in blade and 4H rubber will affect your game too.

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XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
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Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed

Thanks for reply guys.

I am gonna tough it out for a while and see if i can get use to the speed. Against less agressive opponents i am not having much problem apart from my bumps/pushes are going too long when i want to be a bit more aggressive. In time i think i can adjust. Against hard hitters i need alot more practice, maybe try playing alittle bit further off the table( i think the joo blade is best used away from table). I will try bend down more see if it makes a difference.

When someone hits to my backhand when i am at the table my reflex move is a chop block, its going to take awhile to be able to change.

The initial reason for my pimple change was i wanted faster bump shots but its actually made them slower. I will keep trying different angles see if i can figure it out

I have Joo blade and C&F 1.0 and for me it's too fast combination. Overall, Joo is borderline too fast with most pips and C&F is quite fast with most blades.

The "problem" is - I think - that C & F feels good in certain strokes (like chopping from far), but when the real game starts, you end up making way too many easy mistakes because of it's control problems.

I have the same problem here with the joola cwx blade. C&FIII is so fast I removed the sponge. The topsheet is thickish. Even if i put it on a slow blade it is still very fast and most blocks go outside. In contrast, Cropcircles 0x blocks automatically even on emergency panic blocks. The c&F3 chops great though.

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I played with CWX + Cropcircles ox with old ball and it was good and speed right. Now with new balls I find CWX + Sanwei Code 1.0 perfect.

yes all ping pong strokes result of physics knowledge. For the ones who study physics at college or university can put all the result of a stroke under the law of physics.

For exemple, the ping stroke of the chinese are fondamentaly based on the leg and torso. They are bending very low so all the mass of the body is well behind or under the ball. The mass and its acceleration give us the force. Contrary to a players who stand more upward and use just its arms ( so less mass behind the ball), his total force to control the ball can't be as higher than the chinese stroke.

That's why chinese are way ahead of the europeen.


So all this to explain that there is always a way to tame a pimple problem. Some are more difficult than other but they are can be cure. For example there is an international girl player ( don't remember her name) who her main stroke is counter attacking with a PR-1. " we all know that is not a lp for that particular stroke." but she's doing it and win few tournament last year on ITTF.

I Study carefully her stroke and try to reproduce it. I succeed few time. The ball is just going fast like a top spin but in fact it really a heavy underspin. The opponants are just desperate playing against her. It play trick with their mind. The player ( holm) just screemed and can't just figure how to handle that shot.

I didn't followed long enough to master it because of the next factor.

An other factor is TIME. How much time to learn the stroke and practice enough to get the musle memory execute perfectly all the time and THAN add some variation. Also we don't want to loose our ranking.


We want a fast answer to a problem so we change blade and rubber to get a quick fix. The whole table tennis factory is based on this. Resolving your problem for you without forcing yourself to learn the right move that will resolve your problem.

So we have these bat and tensor rubber who catapult and spin your ball for you. Chinese don't use fast bat ( just all around bat ) and tensor on their forehand. They use law of physics so they use their body.

So all experimented players will told you: " to resolve your problems, don't change of equipment, know the physics of your pips, ( what they can do or not), change your stroke and learn new one.

So for your problem. The force of the ball coming is very strong . So you have to reduced the contact of the force on your racket by skimming the ball ( sidespin stroke or chop stroke or change the direction of the ball going from your racket ( open or closed the racket, changing position of your body ( higher or lower or on the side of it) Robot are very good to find the solution as they sending you the same ball.

An other exemple, is that I was successfully succeeding to counter a fast heavy topspin by hitting the ball right afetr the bouced and closing very heavily my racket. The ball return give a very fast and long floating or underspin ball. I was having a high stance and the force of my body was going mainly downward on the ball like crashing the ball.

So I know it is a very long speech but players have to know their law of physics so they can play with it.

another word:

No ones are playing the same. Stroke, body position, footing, etc so can't really take all opinion for a rubbers as a fact.

Maddrag thanks for reply.

I think alot of what u say makes sense. I had a very long session today played 8 hours. There were 2 long pip choppers today whom i asked for help, 1 play in premier league the other a coach. The feedback i got was my pips are too fast even they were not consistent with it. I put my p4 .5 back on and it was like day and night everything was landing again. Infact i felt i was playing much better than previously as if the past few weeks playing with cf3 has somehow made my play better. I was able to beat ppl i never beaten b4.

I've been using CF3 in the same thickness as you on my JSH paddle for several months. Maybe next time I play I can pay more attention to how I successfully return fast loops and drives, I agree that in matches a lot of times I end up hitting the ball just too far by accident. It happens when I don't have enough time to move and actually chop the ball, so maybe its a footwork issue? Is that the same for you or do you have trouble even when you have enough time to chop the ball with the full correct form and all.

vid of her or did not happen!
why i want vid?
beacuse i see some non sens "The ball is just going fast like a top spin but in fact it really a heavy underspin."

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Joesan

Playing with a faster rubber need ajustment and better stroke position and be there to hit the ball. AS you said after few hours with C&F you return to a slower rubber P4 and you got better result. Of course if you practice to go faster on you footwork, you hitting etc than going back to a slower pip you will feel to control more. The practice did that. You can compare it to playing players ranking 400 points above you for a while, loosing a lot of game and then going back to player at the same ranking or lower than you. You will feel more easy but you will maybe get bored as the chalenge dissappeared and you will start to play worse as you don't need to get better and don't do the neccessary steps to hit the ball and win the game.

Don't forget that the reason you wanted to change of pip is that you wanted faster shot.

I did used about 20 differents pips and learned different stroke with the different pips. I stayed quite a while ( about a year long ) with the TSP P&H as I was able to do quite everything ok. Defense, offence and tactics. Then I got bored because it was slow. I went back to the PR 1 for more underspin but loose all my game near the table. opponent were not trying to topspin the ball. I decided to stay with it and learn to play the short game. It was difficult as I used to be within the top 3 best palyer at my club and now i was just 50/50 on loose /win game.

I then learn to bump the ball to answer peoples who try to float or chop the ball to my pips. It was successfull as I didn't lose any games in the last 9 matches ( match of best 3 of 5 games).

By looking on the internet I found Jian LI who play the bumps shot agressively and fit my style. I then try the C&F III as Jian do. I had used this pips at my beginning but it was too fast. Since 2 weeks I played these pips and my game just raised a level. Maybe 200 to 400 pts ranking.

I played a match against an opponent who was having fun to float or underspin the ball to my pips in the past. He saw my balls rapidly getting bumped and he was having a lot of hard work to return these ball and magic ! he had to spin and loop the ball to relsolve his problem and then I finally succeed to have topspin/chop rally with some counterattack from my part. It start to look more as what we see at professionnal level. I was very happy to go to that level.

For your problem of returning fast topspin i will look videos of players with lp and who counter or block fast top spin.

Question: Are you able to counter or block fast topspin with the P4 ? If yes what to you do ? I played with the P4 and the counter or block were made with the same stoke as the C&F III with a bit of open blade with the P4 as it is slower and more arc on the return so a lot more of area to land the ball.

The CF III has more narrow line so you need a very good stroke but the reward is there.

garbol,

The female player is yang xiaoxin. On youtube you will find video of her and the one particularly against matilda ekholm. Also an other video under "echauffement de yang xia oxin ( warm up of yang)You can see the blue shirt guy who's trying to lift the ball. ( so it is underspin with fast pace)