OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi Everyone
Just played three matches in four nights with diminishing levels of success so probably feeling sorry for myself.
I am absolutely fed up with the way that this ball has affected long pips players disproportionately. I have finally decided I will have to use a blade that is probably too quick for me and a long pip with dampening sponge to try and get the ball back over the net.
Attacking players are using the heavy ball to hit very flat without spin and often serving in the same fashion.
The ITTF have sold older recreational players down the river and if I could find myself a frictionless pimple tomorrow I would probably slap it on and use it until someone complained.

Bulldog

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Tibhar Stratus Power Defense
Tibhar Evolution ELP
Tibhar Grass DTecS Ox

Hi,

You can still by frictionless rubbers if you want. If it's just for hobby and no compettion just go for it

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Personally I don't find the ball has made a huge difference in this respect. If a player plays you without spin, they could do that with the celluloid ball

As a LP player I've always had to twiddle to put spin on the ball against some players

Your other option is to play the ball fast and long from your pimples. Positioning is important too - it takes a very good player to powerloop a long, fast float ball deep into their playing elbow or wide backhand, and anyone who tries to flat-hit that ball will fail more often than they succeed

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I agree with dunc in a way.

This requires more work, learning and effort on our part as we play with this equipment.

When I get the "I suck" mentality from getting beat, I try to think of the opportunity it gives me for improvement. There is ALWAYS something I can improve on. I will never run out of things to do to improve my game.

Yeah, it's a bit like playing team-based video games. You can either blame your teammates, and never really progress, or you can think "what can I improve to carry this team?"

I used to hate playing against low spin players. Now they're not a "type" of player I'll typically worry about. They might slap a few past me, but over 5 ends, I have more options than them - I can put more backspin on the ball with my inverted rubber; I can loop; or I can just get way more aggressive with my pimples.

I find it way harder against players who serve well then follow up with strong third-ball attacks. This is a styles thing, and we have to work very hard as LP players to play well against such opponents

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

As an inverted player, if the pips player gives me trouble with return I will just give a deep fast dead serve. Lower the better. It gives me time to line up the dead ball coming back and I don't have to think about the spin. Sometimes this leads to a free point too.

I've also been top spin serving against some long pips players as it comes back deep with backspin - perfect for a 3rd ball attack.

I think you just have to accept there are limitations to the pips and vary your game by using the inverted side too as to make these tricks less effective. Constantly returning with the pips can create solid ways to win points for attacking players. Use your inverted side more, it will come at a surprise at times and adds a layer of difficulty in the heat of battle.

Sorry guys, I was playing a high ranked female junior not a typical lower league player. The other two last night were a coach and a decent league player.
When I say there was not a great deal of spin on the ball, all things are relative. The poly ball is much heavier and the inverted rubbers and blades they were using were tricked right up. I am a blocker at the table and rely on blocking with pips and inverted as well as attacking with my forehand. It’s becoming well nigh impossible at times.

_________________
Tibhar Stratus Power Defense
Tibhar Evolution ELP
Tibhar Grass DTecS Ox

Poly ball has been around since 2014 too...9 years?

These are the hardest players to play against.Either you return the ball with quality or have to twiddle for variation.

Once the LP player twiddles, there are more options and the opponent will not know how the ball will return...... the days of beating very good players with only the pips are gone forever.At low mid levels,ok..... pips play all over the table can work but at a mid-high level, the predictability of the pips and the less spin make the LP player really vulnerable .

It's much easier to play dead balls with the polyball, because there's a limit of spin the ball can generate and so it's easier to eliminate the spin on a less rotating ball. It doesn't require the technique the celluloid ball required because of that limit. I've seen players struggling with the spin on the celluloid ball, year after year, getting a rating bump after the ball change you and I can only dream about, not because they have become better, but because the ball fits them better. Meanwhile all technical styles are much less effective. No wonder there are no male defenders anymore in the top 20 of the world. I can also remember the style change of Timo Boll (less spin, more speed) to stay competitive or the complaints about the spin on the ball by Wu Yang after the ball change.

Most people try to explain all this away by stating that only at the top the difference can be really felt, but for us, mere mortals, the difference is negligible. However, it's the other way around. We, mere mortals, are not adaptive enough to compensate for the change, the top is, and even if we were adaptive enough, the top makes us clear that some styles aren't cutting it anymore. Some argue then to become more adaptive by training more. But that's like saying to someone who has his paycheck cut in half by his employer to work harder and acquire other skills.

But hey: take it from the bright side! At least nowadays table tennis is more popular than tennis because of the ball change. We're also not using dirty celluloid anymore, but clean plastic. It's also safer: the balls can't spontaneous burst into flames in our sporting bags. And last but not least: the balls make the manufacturers more rich and that makes the rich more rich. It's all worth the hassle!

PS: I heard there is a lot of sunshine in places all around the world.

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
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Although this testing I did was a long time ago, the difference in weight wasn't much. The average celluloid ball weight was 2.75g. The average weight of the plastic balls was 2.81g. That's a difference of 2.18% which isn't a huge difference and was within the specifications of Technical Leaflet T3 which specifies the allowable weight for these balls - towards the top end. Perception and reality can be somewhat different. Admittedly I made these videos over 8 years ago but unless the technical leaflet parameters for weight has changed in that time the results should still be reasonably relevant.

Regarding the effect on equipment, many inverted players have had to change their equipment too because they felt the plastic ball was slower - there's been a move to harder sponges which tend also to be a little heavier which can make the setup head heavy and certainly throw off the balance of setup a players got used to. Weight of set up is something I'm reasonably sensitive too and I don't like heavier setups.

I agree with Lorre when they say the difference is negligible for mortals like us. At our coaching sessions with kids (who wouldn't be old enough to remember and be familiar with the old celluloid balls) we mix and match whatever balls we have and that's old 40mm celluloid training balls, 3 star balls, plastic training balls and plastic 3 star balls. No one complains or comments about performance. Instead they focus on their technique to improve their shot. The only ball I do remove now is the old 38mm ball. In my opinion, that does play significantly different and looks a lot smaller to the naked eye too.

I do know what bulldog means though, they 'feel' heavier compared to celluloid balls, which much be due to a combination of hardness and wall thickness. Some brands feel heavier than other. From memory the Nittaku and Double fish felt heavier than the DHS, and it also felt like the DHS carried more spin.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Huge variance in how the plastic balls feel, yeah. You're exactly right haggis - the Nittaku balls all feel really "heavy" to me, and the Xushaofa ball feels really "light". I doubt there is actually a difference in weight, but the feel is noticeable.

I also feel like the XSF bounces higher than other plastic balls.

Unfortunately they're no longer on the ITTF approved list so we can't use them We're probably moving to SANWEI ABS HD 40+ starting in the winter season.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Do the plastic balls feel harder? They feel heavy then? Would make sense as to why players are going to harder top sheets.

Tough to test as the older balls will be pretty old now and might have broken down and are likely used.