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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 04:19 
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Blade: Xiom Hayabusa Z+ FL
FH: Donic Bluefire M2 Max
BH: SpinLord Keiler Red 1.8
dazzler wrote:
I"ve also seen the internet reports where fl2 is like 388d-1 but they`re nothing like each other to me,the pips are much harder on the fl2 and the rubber base is thicker hence less effects in ox version,I`d take the 388d-1 all day long in ox.A high level vet that I`ve practised with uses Octopus very well,you could be onto something there


I second this, I didn't find FL2 and 388d-1 to be alike either. Nothing alike from my experience. I used FL2 in .5 and 1.0 for a long time, and tried 388d-1 a few times along the way, always going back to the FL2 (note that this was with the 38 and original 40 mm balls).

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 10:49 
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also Donic Spike 1...Wang Xi using it... after P1r...


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 13:59 
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deva sarjan wrote:
also Donic Spike 1...Wang Xi using it... after P1r...


Haha, I am sure the list of P1R- and P4-like rubbers could go on and on.
Quite frankly I don't want to end up wasting a lot of my energy on EJ-ing -- I would rather spend my time (and money) on improving my chopping technique...


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 22:41 
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Blade: Defplay/Stiga All Carbon
FH: Gambler MechTek/T05
BH: Super FX Large Pore/T05
TraditionalTradesman wrote:
I used to use P-1R when I chopped more (as opposed to blocking), and I also found it wanting in the control department sometimes. The best control for chopping that I ever experienced was actually with the Spinlord Agenda OX rubber, but since it's OX, you do give up a bit of spin variation, i.e., capacity to generate your own spin.

Even in 1.0mm you give up a lot in terms of spin variation during chops...with agenda. But you can outlast your looper with it, wearing them down. One advantage of less dangerous rubbers is the fact that the looper will be far more tired in the later sets. This is in chopping.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 23:22 
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Japsican wrote:
Even in 1.0mm you give up a lot in terms of spin variation during chops...with agenda. But you can outlast your looper with it, wearing them down. One advantage of less dangerous rubbers is the fact that the looper will be far more tired in the later sets. This is in chopping.


I feel like at lower levels spin variation isn't as important as consistency and placement. If one has a good solid chop s/he can outlast a looper even in OX (we've all seen Jian play)


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 00:05 
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1dennistt wrote:
dazzler wrote:
I"ve also seen the internet reports where fl2 is like 388d-1 but they`re nothing like each other to me,the pips are much harder on the fl2 and the rubber base is thicker hence less effects in ox version,I`d take the 388d-1 all day long in ox.A high level vet that I`ve practised with uses Octopus very well,you could be onto something there


I second this, I didn't find FL2 and 388d-1 to be alike either. Nothing alike from my experience. I used FL2 in .5 and 1.0 for a long time, and tried 388d-1 a few times along the way, always going back to the FL2 (note that this was with the 38 and original 40 mm balls).


I feel a little guilty for this, since i think i'm one of those who sometimes wrote dawei and FII are somewhat similar :lol:

What i meant is not they are clones of each other, (they are utterly different in how they phisically are) nor they feel the same. I meant that both are really allround pips with medium speed, medium sponge (yes i know feint's is different and softer by some margin) that compromise reversal and spin generation. Also i think i was talking about 0.5 mm rubbers, in 1 mm the difference is bigger (because of the sponge).
I don't think it was my comment the one you read, but still i'd understand if someone compared theese 2 rubbers ;)

Btw, i think they both aren't what the author is looking for...

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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 01:36 
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Blade: dr neubauer firewall +
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo 2.15 mm
BH: Dr. Neubauer Agressor 1.3
Maybe I will surprise many but the Agressor is a very good rubber for chopping.A lot of variation and tons of underspin ! It looks it was made for the new ball. Similar to PR-1 but never button up and quite versatile as it is an MP in his own class. The lenght of the pips is the same as PR-1 but the diameter is like an SP. 2.1 mm. It is categorized by the ITTF as an Mp for the ratio ( lenght/ diameter) but it has all the attribute of the LP plus many other attribute of an SP. Can block, counter attack etc. It worth to try


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 06:26 
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Blade: Innershield ZLF
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BH: Curl P-4 OX
maddrag wrote:
Maybe I will surprise many but the Agressor is a very good rubber for chopping.A lot of variation and tons of underspin ! It looks it was made for the new ball. Similar to PR-1 but never button up and quite versatile as it is an MP in his own class. The lenght of the pips is the same as PR-1 but the diameter is like an SP. 2.1 mm. It is categorized by the ITTF as an Mp for the ratio ( lenght/ diameter) but it has all the attribute of the LP plus many other attribute of an SP. Can block, counter attack etc. It worth to try



So, it doesn't have any passive spin reversal then?

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2017, 13:40 
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Blade: dr neubauer firewall +
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo 2.15 mm
BH: Dr. Neubauer Agressor 1.3
It has plenty of spin reversal. You adding more by being active with it. That's all ! The top sheet is like anti-spin so a lot of reversal and the big and long pips just add some more reersal when actively working on the same spin orientation.

A very surprising and promising Mp.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2017, 14:43 
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BH: Curl P4
So… I ended up buying two new pips (p4, Octopus) and a new blade (VKM). After two days of extensive testing, I can share my thoughts on the three set-ups I played back to back.

(1) JSH/T05/P1r 0.5
(2) VKM/T05/P1r 0.5
and
(3) JSH/T05/P4 0.5

Let’s start with (1). I like everything about it except it lacks in the control department. Perhaps I should have tried a thicker sponge but my 0.5 + blade + max tenergy was already pretty heavy.

Moving on to (2). I bought the heaviest VKM I could find since I knew it was going to be slower than JSH. Why VKM and not VKMO – I used to own a couple of VKMOs and this time I wanted to try something drastically different from my JSH. The assembled setup was 10g lighter than the one above. This thing loops quite well, especially from mid-distance (due to its flex?) I tried it in a counter-looping drill and I could hold my own. Still, because it was light and soft, I had trouble landing my normal loops. My coach noted that my loop was lower quality than before. Now on the BH, this combo chops like a dream. I could land chop after chop, with enormous amounts of backspin. Short game was off, but that was due to the flex and the bouncy FH rubber.

Now, (3). This one I have not had a chance to try at the club yet but I spent about an hour chopping at home with my son (although he’s only 8, he trains regularly and can loop with decent spin) and the chopping felt great. Although I feel like my short game will be completely off with this new soft pip too, overall this new setup looked very very promising. I will give it another try on Monday after the holidays.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2017, 17:32 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
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BH: TSP Curl P3 Alpha R OX
I think Donic Spike P1 is also a clone of P1-R. Not sure if it's any more forgiving as Octopus is supposed to be.

oops..already mentioned... |(

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Last edited by Dusty054 on 02 Dec 2017, 17:23, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 03:40 
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Yesterday I spent 15-20 min chopping with P4 vs a very good 2200-2300 level looper/coach. While my chops were very very spinny and pretty consistent - I wasn't very impressed with the rubber. It was way too slow, even on JSH. I can't imagine playing P4 on a slower blade such as Defplay or VKM. I had a lot of trouble controlling the depth of my chop which imho is one of the most important qualities of a good chop: chop low, deep, then spinny...

Going back to JSH & P1r for now.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 07:12 
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I definitely think that in the end, you have to choose one. ONE! Stick with it and you will get accustomed to the feel of the rubber; your stroke will eventually, with time and training, be ingrained in your body and compliment the rubber. You don't see professionals going around with the EJ bug. For instance, with my equipment; at first, the VKMO was a freakin' dumbell. I couldn't even land the ball on the other side of the table until 3 hours. I couldn't chop with my BH rubber for reasons I don't even know; literally 3-4 weeks ago, I was finally able to actually chop with it consistently and properly. It just came to me. If I remember correctly, Japsican stated in his blog that one day, FH chopping just suddenly came to him. I would stick to your P1-R and just keep training. Your coach in the training video you shared is obviously a very good coach (Coach Wang is supposed to be one of the best defenders in the USA, right?), so just keep on working on your game/technique, etc. with him.

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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2017, 01:38 
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Danthespearton HQ wrote:
I definitely think that in the end, you have to choose one. ONE! Stick with it and you will get accustomed to the feel of the rubber; your stroke will eventually, with time and training, be ingrained in your body and compliment the rubber. You don't see professionals going around with the EJ bug. For instance, with my equipment; at first, the VKMO was a freakin' dumbell. I couldn't even land the ball on the other side of the table until 3 hours. I couldn't chop with my BH rubber for reasons I don't even know; literally 3-4 weeks ago, I was finally able to actually chop with it consistently and properly. It just came to me. If I remember correctly, Japsican stated in his blog that one day, FH chopping just suddenly came to him. I would stick to your P1-R and just keep training. Your coach in the training video you shared is obviously a very good coach (Coach Wang is supposed to be one of the best defenders in the USA, right?), so just keep on working on your game/technique, etc. with him.


yeah, maybe i am being too impatient by testing a setup for one day and not liking it because ..duh... it's different. |(
I am sure that with time I could get used to just about any LP/blade combo if I am forced to stay with it.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 13:50 
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I am back to the P4 and this time I think I am sticking with it for a while. I have already trained with it, also played 6 matches on Saturday, and hit with it some more today. Overall I kinda got used to it, it’s ridiculously spinny on chops and feels great. I am gonna stop posting here and instead will create a P1 vs P4 comparison thread since I now know both quite well. Stay tuned (if anyone cares :D)


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