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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 21:50 
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Joo Too
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Japsican wrote:
I remember lorre saying this to me in the past...but I found FL3 and P4 slower for sure when comparing the same thicknesses of sponge. Lorre, if I recall, you were comparing different sponge thickness, correct me if I'm wrong.

That being said, however, P-1R certainly isn't fast by any stretch.

I think for most people, this happens to them with grippy pips:
Since the grip is much higher in P4 and FL3 it causes a higher trajectory ball, or a float ball (or both) if your stroke isn't matching the spin of the ball speed-wise. This will cause the ball to sail long. Because it's sailing longer, the perception is that the rubber is faster, but really it's because there is less spin and/or higher trajectory.

P-1R has a bit more slippage, and therefore against a lot of spin, it's a bit more forgiving with regard to needing a lot of bat speed. P4 is more forgiving in the sense that it absorbs far more pace. So, depending on your needs or opponent, one can be "better" than the other. For me, P-1R is better against super spinny loopers. P4 is better against flat drivers, low spin players, and hitters. But like anything, all rubbers can be used against any style.


I was comparing Feint III in 1.3 and P4 in 1.5. So no. :)

You might be right with your theory. I tested P4 a couple of years ago when I wasn't as an accomplished chopper as I am today.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 06:16 
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Quick Q about these 2 pips. I currently use p4 1mm on BTY Joo and think I'll try 1mm p1r from the things I've heard, do you think that it will take a lot of time to get used to the increase in speed or not? Do you think I will have to change my technique in my chop? Any thoughts much appreciated, thanks.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 08:12 
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ModernDef wrote:
Quick Q about these 2 pips. I currently use p4 1mm on BTY Joo and think I'll try 1mm p1r from the things I've heard, do you think that it will take a lot of time to get used to the increase in speed or not? Do you think I will have to change my technique in my chop? Any thoughts much appreciated, thanks.


No and no. :)

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PostPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 23:36 
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Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
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ModernDef wrote:
Quick Q about these 2 pips. I currently use p4 1mm on BTY Joo and think I'll try 1mm p1r from the things I've heard, do you think that it will take a lot of time to get used to the increase in speed or not? Do you think I will have to change my technique in my chop? Any thoughts much appreciated, thanks.

I disagree that there is absolutely no technique change, but agree it won't take long to adjust. It's small.

There is more grip and bite on the P-4, and against super spinny loops you will need to swing faster and/or angle the blade more open (more flat toward the table)... you will notice it.

P-1R will take care of a lot of that spin for you, where as P-4 will not...I think against sidespin as well, P-4 is trickier due to more grip, so you will need to be more aware of sidespin on loops and short game.

The trade off is that P-4 will take care of the pace more...

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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2017, 01:46 
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ModernDef wrote:
Quick Q about these 2 pips. I currently use p4 1mm on BTY Joo and think I'll try 1mm p1r from the things I've heard, do you think that it will take a lot of time to get used to the increase in speed or not? Do you think I will have to change my technique in my chop? Any thoughts much appreciated, thanks.


While I agree with Japsican's reply in general, although I kind of look at all this a bit simpler and my theoretical knowledge of pips is not as deep as his.

Your technique should NOT change no matter which of these two pips you use. A chop is a chop. There is a certain way you swing, chop the ball, and do a follow-through. You also align your body, position feet, etc etc. None of this should change, regardless of the rubber you use.

Now, is it going to feel different switching from P4 to P1r - yes, it will, there is no question about it. The rubber will feel a bit faster, however if your technique is solid you will adjust in no time. In my first post I gave an example of a good chopper trying out P4 after playing w/ P1 and he adjusted instantly. The same was true for my coach who said that he actually liked it a lot. If you switch the other way (p4 -> p1) the switch should be just as easy. Again there won't be a great deal of adjustments necessary, just a few micro-adjustments here and there. IMHO this is the same adjustment you would make as if you were to try the same rubber on two different blades.


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2017, 05:02 
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Perhaps it's just semantics. To me, any change in bat angle, path, or speed is a technique change. If your angle is 45 degrees with one rubber and 50 degrees with another, it requires a technical change because one's muscle memory will revert to baseline during play. Same goes for bat speed.

I will admit that I probably am way more sensitive to equipment changes than most, which one would think would keep me from doing it, but it doesn't. :lol:

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