OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison

So it's been exactly one year since I posted here .. I've been training w/ coach weekly and have gained a lot more experience with pips. I thought it would be fun to try to write down my thoughts on both rubbers without looking up what I wrote last year.

P4... was my go-to rubber for the first 11 months. I was very loyal, didn't do any ej-ing with pips and overall was very happy with it in training. Everything changed about a month ago when I resumed playing our weekly local league. Luckily my last year's local rating was around 2070 and this gave me a chance to compete against our top guys (1950-2300) for the past few weeks.

Thoughts after using the P4 0.5 in matches:
- I had to be ultra active in my chopping;
- Grippy and unforgiving; as a result I netted a lot of service returns;
- I struggled with slow spinny loops;
- Many chops didn't make it over the net... too slow;
- I rarely scored "bonus" points (a.k.a when people misjudge pips and send it long or net)

Thoughts after playing P1r 0.5 in matches:
- Harder... and faster. Apples to apples, same thickness, same blade.
- Over the table game is solid; serve receives, long pushes, side swipes are very consistent and more forgiving.
- Less spin over the table. I think P4 has 5-10% more spin if you consider "average" spin across all shots. The spin on chops (with proper stroke and good contact) is still very heavy though.
- "Bonus" points... are back. The rubber is definitely not as predictable as the P4

Overall by switching I feel like I've given up a bit of spin for more deception, harder feel and overall more LP-like characteristics. At this point I can play either one and my results wouldn't be that much different...

The end...

Is the 0.5mm P-1R very ox-like on the VKMO? I found it too ox-like on the JSH. But I love it on the regular VKM or defplay.

Japsican wrote:

Is the 0.5mm P-1R very ox-like on the VKMO? I found it too ox-like on the JSH. But I love it on the regular VKM or defplay.

I know what you mean.
No it doesn't feel too hard. If anything P4 is more Ox-like because the sponge is very thin and soft. I can feel the ball hitting the blade every time.
P1r feels "normal" and plays more like an "all-around" pip... but sounds different though, still getting used to it.

I have not played P4 or P1-r in a while. I used P1-r for a long time before I used P4, so my technique likely changed to some degree. That said BOTH are outstanding LP rubbers in the "grippy pip" category. I found P1-r better at chopping. I could topspin roll or even to some degree counter topspin with topspin with P4. I think they are more alike that different and are my personal two favorite LP to play with.

WHAT I was missing all that time?? No comparison to TSP SuperSpinpips Chop 2 and to Neptune.... P1R 1mm is MY rubber!!

First game today at practice with a guy (attacker) that I usually loose with 3-1 or 3-2 and it was a hands down victory for me with an easy 3-1. He couldn't return my second in a row chop, all went to the net! Even coach tried to give him directions for the second in-a-row loop to use even less power and more spin (top spin) and still he couldn't manage to pass the net! I am thrilled with the new low-cost blade I made. A lot of points came with AK47 FH looping also when he tried to avoid my BH chops and chop blocks playing balls in my right side (FH)! Coach (attacker also) told me that this is the blade that I should use from now on.

I will definitely try also P4 on my other Yinhe 980.

Author:	Ndragon [ 15 Feb 2018, 18:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
Be sure to let us all know your findings from day 1 to day 100 I am not going to buy any of these pips but just wondering how they all directly compare to FL2 with regards to pushing dead balls, backspin, first chop and chopping heavy top spin. It's so interesting to see how diverse people's taste is with pips and the slight change of style that comes with it

Author:	notfound123 [ 06 Mar 2019, 14:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
So it's been exactly one year since I posted here .. I've been training w/ coach weekly and have gained a lot more experience with pips. I thought it would be fun to try to write down my thoughts on both rubbers without looking up what I wrote last year. P4... was my go-to rubber for the first 11 months. I was very loyal, didn't do any ej-ing with pips and overall was very happy with it in training. Everything changed about a month ago when I resumed playing our weekly local league. Luckily my last year's local rating was around 2070 and this gave me a chance to compete against our top guys (1950-2300) for the past few weeks. Thoughts after using the P4 0.5 in matches: - I had to be ultra active in my chopping; - Grippy and unforgiving; as a result I netted a lot of service returns; - I struggled with slow spinny loops; - Many chops didn't make it over the net... too slow; - I rarely scored "bonus" points (a.k.a when people misjudge pips and send it long or net) Thoughts after playing P1r 0.5 in matches: - Harder... and faster. Apples to apples, same thickness, same blade. - Over the table game is solid; serve receives, long pushes, side swipes are very consistent and more forgiving. - Less spin over the table. I think P4 has 5-10% more spin if you consider "average" spin across all shots. The spin on chops (with proper stroke and good contact) is still very heavy though. - "Bonus" points... are back. The rubber is definitely not as predictable as the P4 Overall by switching I feel like I've given up a bit of spin for more deception, harder feel and overall more LP-like characteristics. At this point I can play either one and my results wouldn't be that much different... The end...

Author:	Japsican [ 06 Mar 2019, 23:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
notfound123 wrote: So it's been exactly one year since I posted here .. I've been training w/ coach weekly and have gained a lot more experience with pips. I thought it would be fun to try to write down my thoughts on both rubbers without looking up what I wrote last year. P4... was my go-to rubber for the first 11 months. I was very loyal, didn't do any ej-ing with pips and overall was very happy with it in training. Everything changed about a month ago when I resumed playing our weekly local league. Luckily my last year's local rating was around 2070 and this gave me a chance to compete against our top guys (1950-2300) for the past few weeks. Thoughts after using the P4 0.5 in matches: - I had to be ultra active in my chopping; - Grippy and unforgiving; as a result I netted a lot of service returns; - I struggled with slow spinny loops; - Many chops didn't make it over the net... too slow; - I rarely scored "bonus" points (a.k.a when people misjudge pips and send it long or net) Thoughts after playing P1r 0.5 in matches: - Harder... and faster. Apples to apples, same thickness, same blade. - Over the table game is solid; serve receives, long pushes, side swipes are very consistent and more forgiving. - Less spin over the table. I think P4 has 5-10% more spin if you consider "average" spin across all shots. The spin on chops (with proper stroke and good contact) is still very heavy though. - "Bonus" points... are back. The rubber is definitely not as predictable as the P4 Overall by switching I feel like I've given up a bit of spin for more deception, harder feel and overall more LP-like characteristics. At this point I can play either one and my results wouldn't be that much different... The end... My findings exactly. At the table I felt so much more control (I hate that word, but apropos) compared to P4. Serve receives are tricky with P4 against good or weird servers. When I used it, I got to the point where I just had to use inverted because inverted was so much easier and more predictable. If I got a really spinny underspin serve I either put it into the net or pushed it off the table due to the grip. Just wasn't sure what the trajectory would be, and inverted was more intuitive. P-1R mitigates a lot of the angle guessing and consistently reacts to the amount of spin on the ball, IMO, as predictable as inverted. in 0.5, it is definitely less spinny over the table, but you can add some spin. Chopping with p4 against the spinniest of loopers above 1900 can be scary. It's almost SP-like. Crazy thing is, I can actually chop with inverted better for some reason, because if I swing fast the throw keeps the trajectory low. Espcially when they are slow (VERY) spinny loops. But I do admit that P4 and FL3 are best at forcing the opponent to loop rather than hit through chops. Pick your poison there I suppose, because while it forced them to loop, if very they were very spinny then chopping that loop was disconcerting...and hopefully your hall has high ceilings, LOL. Back in 2014-15 when I was taking lessons from WCL, I asked him to help me practice against very spinny slow loops...now, keep in mind these are slow spinny loops from a 2600 level chopper/looper using H3. The results were straight up comical: "Space...the final frontier!" I might have hit that low hanging HVAC unit one, maybe two times. (You know the table I'm talking about). Is the 0.5mm P-1R very ox-like on the VKMO? I found it too ox-like on the JSH. But I love it on the regular VKM or defplay.

Author:	notfound123 [ 06 Mar 2019, 23:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
Japsican wrote: Is the 0.5mm P-1R very ox-like on the VKMO? I found it too ox-like on the JSH. But I love it on the regular VKM or defplay. I know what you mean. No it doesn't feel too hard. If anything P4 is more Ox-like because the sponge is very thin and soft. I can feel the ball hitting the blade every time. P1r feels "normal" and plays more like an "all-around" pip... but sounds different though, still getting used to it.

Author:	Japsican [ 07 Mar 2019, 02:16 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
notfound123 wrote: Japsican wrote: Is the 0.5mm P-1R very ox-like on the VKMO? I found it too ox-like on the JSH. But I love it on the regular VKM or defplay. I know what you mean. No it doesn't feel too hard. If anything P4 is more Ox-like because the sponge is very thin and soft. I can feel the ball hitting the blade every time. P1r feels "normal" and plays more like an "all-around" pip... but sounds different though, still getting used to it. Hahaha, so much for opinions on how rubbers "feel."

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Author:	vanjr [ 08 Mar 2019, 04:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
I have not played P4 or P1-r in a while. I used P1-r for a long time before I used P4, so my technique likely changed to some degree. That said BOTH are outstanding LP rubbers in the "grippy pip" category. I found P1-r better at chopping. I could topspin roll or even to some degree counter topspin with topspin with P4. I think they are more alike that different and are my personal two favorite LP to play with.

Author:	notfound123 [ 08 Mar 2019, 15:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
vanjr wrote: I have not played P4 or P1-r in a while. I used P1-r for a long time before I used P4, so my technique likely changed to some degree. That said BOTH are outstanding LP rubbers in the "grippy pip" category. I found P1-r better at chopping. I could topspin roll or even to some degree counter topspin with topspin with P4. I think they are more alike that different and are my personal two favorite LP to play with. Yep... very similar yet their sponges is what makes all the difference. One is a tad faster and harder while the other one is soft and has a bit more spin.

Author:	tzifos [ 19 May 2019, 05:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
WHAT I was missing all that time?? No comparison to TSP SuperSpinpips Chop 2 and to Neptune.... P1R 1mm is MY rubber!! First game today at practice with a guy (attacker) that I usually loose with 3-1 or 3-2 and it was a hands down victory for me with an easy 3-1. He couldn't return my second in a row chop, all went to the net! Even coach tried to give him directions for the second in-a-row loop to use even less power and more spin (top spin) and still he couldn't manage to pass the net! I am thrilled with the new low-cost blade I made. A lot of points came with AK47 FH looping also when he tried to avoid my BH chops and chop blocks playing balls in my right side (FH)! Coach (attacker also) told me that this is the blade that I should use from now on. I will definitely try also P4 on my other Yinhe 980.

Author:	notfound123 [ 22 May 2019, 01:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: Yet another Curl P-1R vs P-4 comparison
tzifos wrote: WHAT I was missing all that time?? No comparison to TSP SuperSpinpips Chop 2 and to Neptune.... P1R 1mm is MY rubber!! First game today at practice with a guy (attacker) that I usually loose with 3-1 or 3-2 and it was a hands down victory for me with an easy 3-1. He couldn't return my second in a row chop, all went to the net! Even coach tried to give him directions for the second in-a-row loop to use even less power and more spin (top spin) and still he couldn't manage to pass the net! I am thrilled with the new low-cost blade I made. A lot of points came with AK47 FH looping also when he tried to avoid my BH chops and chop blocks playing balls in my right side (FH)! Coach (attacker also) told me that this is the blade that I should use from now on. I will definitely try also P4 on my other Yinhe 980. Honestly don't fall in love with it too quickly. One match, or two or even 5 -- too many variables to tell whether rubber had anything to do with your win/loss. When I temporarily switched to the P1r, my league results didn't change at all. I played okay. I trained okay. I was just not making my usual spin on chops. And my feeling was a little off. Don't get me wrong -- the spin on chops was there, and it was significant. It just didn't feel the same as P4. It took me almost TWO MONTHS to decide that I should just stick with what I know best.. As they say "let well alone"

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