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PostPosted: 14 May 2018, 05:38 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Many thanks for your SP comparison! Seems to be what is echoed across the board -- SP more variation, but harder to control. LP more stable, but a bit more dependent on what opponent throws at you. Mentally I think I prefer the SP game, we'll just see if my skill allows for it!

I have the FL3 in 1.3 as well, and it does give a little more spin than the .5 version though for me it was not a huge night and day difference. So I'd imagine 1.1 to 1.3 would be even less. You may like the p4 in 1.4-1.7, since that would probably be the spinniest long pip on the market! And realistically would only be granting marginal control over SPs, I might imagine...

I'd be giving up the backhand punch attack against backspin, which was my favorite. But I find I'm more consistent chopping/pushing on the backhand and waiting for a high ball to attack or a push to loop.

To throw some more monkey wrenches into the works... you may also like to try Yasaka Rising Dragon. It is a cross between chinese tacky and speedier euro rubbers. I have a sheet and was testing it again recently. Seemed to work very well! Leatherback (from the forum here) espoused his like for this as a chopper/attacker rubber also. He's at a pretty high level, just to note that it does work going up the scale. The FX-S is also quite good. Not as spinny as tenergy, but not as fast or sensitive to spin - so you'd get better control, sacrificing just a bit of spin/speed.

The inverted rubbers really aren't all that different -- you can pretty much just pick one you like based on feel and stay with it. At higher levels virtually everyone of the modern/older ones can be found. From MX-P to tenergy to hurricanes to yada yada.

I doubt you'd like curl p1r and especially not d.techs if your aim is to vary spin. IMO they lack the grip to really base your game on doing so. D.techs in particular, as it does not generate much spin at all -- though it does well when chopping since the reversal is so good, more spin is converted to chop. Against dead balls? You return dead balls in essence.


Yea, SPs vs LPs is quite simple really. If you want more spin variation than with Curl P4, then SPs may give you what you want.

I'm thinking of this all like sliders in a video game. Move one slider and it affects another. For me, I felt I needed to move the forgiveness slider forward, even if it means sacrificing some variation. So long as I can still vary the spin, getting a few extra chops back on the table will really help my game in the tough moments. FL3 1.1mm offers the perfect amount of forgiveness, but a tad more spin on heavy chops would be welcome. This is where Curl P4 1.5mm comes in, so it may very well suit me. I want to be somewhere between a LP and a SP, so Feint Long 3 and Curl P4 (Donic Spike or something too if I'm correct) are really the only contenders. I know that, but I've still been tempted by Curl P1r etc. (thanks for helping me and saying I won't like them :) lol).

You'll find out how much forgiveness you're willing to sacrifice for more variation. My advice would be to test SPs against the stronger players you play against, as for me, SPs felt great against players just below my level but a liability against players at or higher than my level.

I'll put Yasaka Rising Dragon on my growing list of rubbers to try then lol. I think more testing with Acuda S1 and Hurricane 3 Neo is probably what I need to be doing right now though. One represents fast tensor inverted and the other tacky Chinese rubber. From there I can eliminate rubbers off my list. Right now, I haven't played with Hurricane enough to know what I would like more or less off, but it seems great so far.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 08:46 
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Blade: Innershield ZLF
FH: Chop-City!
BH: Curl P-4 OX
I've been dinking around more and more with the various rubbers. My current problem with the curl p4 OX is that it's grippy enough to prevent me from doing the slick LP techniques (like hard punches against back spin, and gimmicky short drops on serves ignoring the spin), but not really grippy enough to do full on deception when chopping as far as changing my own spins. It does a bit, however after testing out the SP for longer periods of time, there is a night and day difference between the two.

And issue with the slick pips... is that you can't really change the spin much at all!

I think my real conundrum is that my forehand is only effective at the chopping range. To chop and then step in with a loop from that distance. I don't play well with it at all near the table, where I am when blocking with LP/anti. So I can either plan the backhand rubber around that distance, or just practice using it closer to the table.

It was more fun using the SP to vary spin, tricking people with dead/heavy chops and getting either a pop up or a net. Yet... I think my winning rate might be higher when using the LP OX just from a perspective of consistency. I can keep the ball in play, albeit with fewer variations, long enough to get my forehand into action. And I think that execution style forehand kill shot is responsible for more points than baiting them in with deception. So I was thinking of even going back to some slicker LPs, so I can own the ball over the table, but if someone loops heavy at me... I can still chop it back and use their spin against them. If they don't give any spin... then it's just dead balls unless I twiddle. Markus Grothe comes to mind there (d.techs OX chopper) or even sun jianfei -- but he has a tremendous forehand, and really seems to only use his backhand to setup a point or stay in it.

I liked the feel better with p4 OX, but I don't really see any advantage to it over p4 with 1.0 sponge or something for a bit more spin.

You might try tsp millitall 2 or nittaku pimplemini with some sponge. Those are medium-long pips, less spin sensitive than SP but more sensitive than any of the LP you've used.

**Actually just my evil plot to turn you into an equipment junkie for the next 10 years :lol:

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PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 00:16 
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Blade: Innershield ZLF
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BH: Curl P-4 OX
Was just running through some older posts on the topic and came across another of leatherbacks:

Quote:

more important is placemanet and height
You are right! Placement and height and depth is far more important then spin...

Sponge for myself is used for feel. The more sponge I have the more I have the feeling of the ball being held on my racket and me controlling the pace of the outcome.

Imo Long pips can't generate enough spin to fool people (although a hotly debated subject) but the can generate enough that allow YOU to control the ball.

More sponge does not equal more spin. It equals more feel and dwell and ability to control the ball with full strokes.

...for me anyway.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 08:34 
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Feint Long 3 and Curl P4 are strange rubbers. I'm not really sure how they even exist (how many people actually buy them?), but I'm glad they do. As you say, they aren't enough like LPs to do LP tricks, but aren't enough like SPs to be truly deceptive in the right hands (spin variation). Still, they cover a middle ground that, as you say, can potentially win you more points overall. That's my thinking with FL3 as well (or P4, if I make the change).

If you want to get your forehand in more frequently, I would imagine that reversal rubbers like Curl P1r would be more effective (you'd just have to stop opponents from getting a cheap hit in at the start of the rally). The more disruptive ball I'd think would create some good attacking opportunities. I haven't played with it though, and even if I did, I probably wouldn't be very good with it until I've developed some LP techniques (side swipes and punch blocks etc.), so I can't really pitch in with personal experience here.

I think FL3 and P4 are aimed at players who stay back more or like to attack/topspin with their forehands away from the table. My thinking is rubbers like Curl P1r will give you more short balls close to the table to put away, whereas, with rubbers like P4, you'll have to work harder to setup such opportunities. I'd imagine though you'd have more control setting up opportunities with P4. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'm finding FL3 1.1mm so controlled that I wouldn't mind sacrificing a little of it for more spin. Bring on FL4! I'm hoping Curl P4 1.5mm will sort of be that, but I realize that it will probably only a little more spin friendly.

You know a lot of rubbers lol. I'll add them to my list but I think I'm going to first see if I prefer FL3 or P4 and then directly compare the preferred rubber with 802. I've never really given 802 a proper go on my backhand. It would be joke if after all this it ends up as part of my main setup again. I don't think it will though. FL3 is just so damn good at getting the ball back on the table.

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Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

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Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
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PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 08:47 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Was just running through some older posts on the topic and came across another of leatherbacks:

Quote:

more important is placemanet and height
You are right! Placement and height and depth is far more important then spin...

Sponge for myself is used for feel. The more sponge I have the more I have the feeling of the ball being held on my racket and me controlling the pace of the outcome.

Imo Long pips can't generate enough spin to fool people (although a hotly debated subject) but the can generate enough that allow YOU to control the ball.

More sponge does not equal more spin. It equals more feel and dwell and ability to control the ball with full strokes.

...for me anyway.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


I agree with the poster that placement, height, and depth are more important than spin. Again, FL3 gives me greater control over these things. I would think though that more dwell time would equal more spin. From what I've read, Curl P4 in 1.5mm gives more variations of spin at the cost of some control. I really hope that's the case.

I do agree though that sponge gives more 'feel', though I think this is subjective (and also dependent on the type of sponge). I haven't used FL3 in OX, but I don't think I'd like it as much as with sponge. The cushioning of the sponge I think helps me defend better (more forgiving). I really feel I can guide the ball so to speak.

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Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

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Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 17 May 2018, 03:46 
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Blade: Innershield ZLF
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I tried a number of the slower defensive rubbers again -- disappointed! Already ripped all of them off the blades and put back on the tenery/rozena types.

The defensive ones are great for chopping, of course. And the pushing is very secure, but as expected... the offense category is just too weak!

So after spending a sizable chunk of money on crap rubbers to test... I'm back to where I started! Tenergy and OX LP backhand (p4 on one and FL2 on the other).

I actually found the OX to be more forgiving than the sponged variety. For me it feels like the sponge grabs onto the ball more and causes more errors. With OX, it seems if I can reach the ball at all and execute any sort of chopping stroke, then I guide it back easily enough simply by adjusting grip pressure. I think you'll end up sticking with p4 in the thickest sponge after trying it. I'll hang onto the no sponge myself! :lol:

But on that note, it's also probably because you're using the joo blade and I'm using an innershield which is quite soft and slow. For the joo blade I'd probably want a bit of sponge too unless blocking close to the table.

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PostPosted: 18 May 2018, 08:25 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I tried a number of the slower defensive rubbers again -- disappointed! Already ripped all of them off the blades and put back on the tenery/rozena types.

The defensive ones are great for chopping, of course. And the pushing is very secure, but as expected... the offense category is just too weak!

So after spending a sizable chunk of money on crap rubbers to test... I'm back to where I started! Tenergy and OX LP backhand (p4 on one and FL2 on the other).

I actually found the OX to be more forgiving than the sponged variety. For me it feels like the sponge grabs onto the ball more and causes more errors. With OX, it seems if I can reach the ball at all and execute any sort of chopping stroke, then I guide it back easily enough simply by adjusting grip pressure. I think you'll end up sticking with p4 in the thickest sponge after trying it. I'll hang onto the no sponge myself! :lol:

But on that note, it's also probably because you're using the joo blade and I'm using an innershield which is quite soft and slow. For the joo blade I'd probably want a bit of sponge too unless blocking close to the table.


Yea, I don't think I'm too keen on defensive inverted either... I feel it's easier to chop well possibly with fast inverted than to attack well with slow inverted. At least you've confirmed you're already using the right equipment :) . Why do you have FL2 on your second blade by the way? Very different to P4.

Against pace, I definitely now like a bit of sponge underneath (cushions the ball more). For touch shots, yea, OX is way better I think. I'm not sure what the Joo blade would be like with OX (only used sponged rubbers on it so far), but it might be difficult to control (I'll test my sheet of Dtechs Grass OX on it, which I bet will be hell to play against). My Reisman blade is a lot slower and hitting with FL3 1.1mm was close to being a waste of time (though chopping was basically maxed out control). If I'd have continued with the blade, maybe OX FL3 or P4 would have been more suitable, like you feel when it comes to your Innershield. A bit of mushy sponge probably helps on the Joo blade :) .

I think I'll like P4 1.5mm too. It will be down to the forehand rubber then. I like Hurricane a lot so far for chopping and it goes fast enough when I put enough effort into it, but that's also one of my concerns. To generate sufficient pace, it requires a decent amount of effort (but it gets there unlike defensive rubbers). I'll have to test the easy power and effortless spin of Acuda again straight away when I receive my second Joo blade. As we said a couple of posts ago though, it's ultimately about what wins us points basically. I need to avoid thinking about which I can do flashy shots with and concentrate on what will work for me at 9-9 in the fifth set.

I think Acuda sacrifices more control when chopping than Hurricane does in terms of effort when attacking, but still... I've also read about people boosting Hurricane, so I might actually give that a go if I really feel it needs a bump up in power.

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Standard Equipment
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 19 May 2018, 01:10 
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BH: Curl P-4 OX
Many people say hurriances aren't worth using UNLESS you boost them! Then you run into the problem of having to reglue often, swap out rubbers etc... Which is where a rubber like rising dragon is supposed to fit. Playing like a boosted tacky rubber, without actually boosting.

With the FL2, I had a sheet in OX that I hadn't ever used so I decided to slap it on. Surprisingly it seems to fit my style even better than the p4. The p4 seems more grippy, but in a different sense. It requires you to use a more violent stroke, really digging into the pips and actively bending them. I found with the FL2, I could "rake" the ball more so to speak and generate similar amounts of spin. Without changing anything, comparing the 2 rubbers I was getting more balls back with FL2 and having an easier time doing so.

I hear people talk about using pips that "fit your stroke" and apparently it rings true here! Either one would work for me at this point. Just quibbling over little things for fun as usual. Winning wise, if I had any semblance of a brain at this point, I'd pick one and burn the others :lol: then play without changing.

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PostPosted: 19 May 2018, 09:27 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Many people say hurriances aren't worth using UNLESS you boost them! Then you run into the problem of having to reglue often, swap out rubbers etc... Which is where a rubber like rising dragon is supposed to fit. Playing like a boosted tacky rubber, without actually boosting.


Yea, I keep reading that on all the forums, that Hurricane is a must boost rubber. If I like P4 (which I received today in red), I'll have to get a black sheet of whichever rubber I go with, Hurricane or Tenergy. I'll still experiment but realistically it seems logical that it comes down to these two. This will ultimately leave a red sheet of Hurricane to boost without fear of damaging my forehand rubber. I'm not saying I'll play best with one of these two, but I want to start getting used to something soon. I'll be here for years without a main setup if I don't choose something. I'll feel more comfortable experimenting then I think.

FL2 is more of a reversal type rubber like Curl P1r, no? It really does come down to what 'fits your stroke', as I immediately found I could get more backspin with FL3 than FL2. Consistency wise, I don't remember now if I found one better than the other. Both are super consistent. It depends on the opponent though, as you could probably return the ball with more interest using FL2 against a heavy looper. Against no spin balls, FL2 only seemed to lightly spin the ball. When I've settled FL3 vs P4 and Hurricane vs Acuda, I'll put FL2 on the backup blade and see how it goes. It probably deserves more of a test than I gave it considering its quality. If it's working for you, that's great! You should still be able to use long pip techniques with it I imagine.

Quote:
Winning wise, if I had any semblance of a brain at this point, I'd pick one and burn the others :lol: then play without changing.


And miss out on all the fun? I do think we need a main bat though, one that we are familiar with (or one you will get familiar with) so we don't make 'not used to my equipment' mistakes in matches.

So yea, I received P4 1.4-1.7mm today in red (my first backhand rubber in red probably ever) and I am now just waiting on my second Joo blade, which will hopefully come this coming week. Can't wait to try it. The sponge looks weird, like it has tiny holes in it. The pimples are surprisingly not that grippy either and are butter soft. In fact, they look and feel nothing like FL3, which is not what I expected considering they are often put up against one another. P4 looks like a straight up long pip. FL3 doesn't. The grooves on top of the pips are also more defined on FL3. Basically, my observations of the rubbers side by side makes me think Curl P4 will generate less spin on no spin balls and more spin against heavy spin balls. Did you find this to be the case?

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Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 20 May 2018, 01:42 
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Blade: Innershield ZLF
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BH: Curl P-4 OX
Well, with the p4 OX I can still do 'ghost' type serves with it -- meaning serve back spin, and it has enough rotation that it will roll back into the net. I can also do that with FL2. With pips like joola badman or d.techs or other low grip ones, the spin will be much less when trying that serve, assuming it rolls back to the net at all.

But fl2 is less sensitive when receiving serves and such, so it has less spin than p4/fl3 assuredly. And yes, I think the FL3 top sheet has more friction on the pips themselves so it can add more spin against dead balls. The p4 really takes a good brushing to get the pips into action, not for any lazy choppers. I think that's why people say it can be difficult. If you're wanting a 'no-brainer' long pip that you can just swat at the ball, p4 is not it! Same as FL3 though, so shouldn't be a problem for you. I don't think they're miles apart in generating spin however. Or maybe I just have a lazy chopping stroke :lol:

In all honesty, I'll probably play some people with the FL2/P4 and receive nothing but dead balls... then say if I had something grippier I could change the spin more! So I'll slap on the short pips again... face a looper, then tell myself if I had something with less grip and more reversal I could chop those back easier and win more!

Though as I said, if I was smart at all... I'd just select one and stay with it. You have to pick the part you use most, then find ways to overcome the weaknesses of that rubber.

So with that in mind -- of course I went online and ordered yet another rubber! This time it was a new sheet of yasaka rising dragon. My previous one was about 2 years old, and had been stuck in a drawer glued onto another blade. I liked the ease of chopping with the slower tacky rubbers, not the slow attacking speed. And using my older sheet of RD, it did seem to fit my style more so and was far less touchy than tenergy up close. Blocking and fishing is better with tenergy for me. Yet, I don't block all that much anymore or fish all that much!

My favorite chopper of all time is Wu Yang -- so if I had the skill to play like her (short pips / tacky), it would be my ideal goal.

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PostPosted: 20 May 2018, 04:27 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
So I'll slap on the short pips again... face a looper, then tell myself if I had something with less grip and more reversal I could chop those back easier and win more!


Yea, if only we could have a setup to use against each style of player... Well, we could, but I certainly couldn't pull it off. Maybe you're onto something having P4 on one and FL2 on the other :) .

Just been watching some videos of Wu Yang and then had a quick look into what equipment she uses (Skyline 2 NEO on the forehand and Spectol on the backhand). I wouldn't have guessed she uses short pips from watching her play, as she seems to get the same floaty chops (in trajectory, not spin) that FL3 and P4 users get. She has a great cutting motion on her forehand that you can see is loaded at times.

Tacky Chinese rubbers seem particularly suited to really 'cutting' the ball, as the ball seems to stay on bat longer. It's a bit like cardio chopping though, don't you think? Like when hitting with H3, I find chopping takes some effort as well.

Quote:
Though as I said, if I was smart at all... I'd just select one and stay with it. You have to pick the part you use most, then find ways to overcome the weaknesses of that rubber.

So with that in mind -- of course I went online and ordered yet another rubber!


lol. Yasaka Rising Dragon does look like an interesting rubber though.

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Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 21 May 2018, 09:12 
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Blade: Innershield ZLF
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Yeah they're linear in that you get out what you put in. Whereas the tenergy sponge really springs the ball out on you. Less effort but less control (short game) usually for most people -- some say they get more control off the table with tenergy since it doesn't take a full swing to get it back quickly.

I'm already tired of the fl2! But I've got enough blades so I'm leaving it on and putting the rising dragon on my hadraw shield with short pips. Now I've got 3 setups, all with different rubbers and I might as well just leave them all alone! I think ill take off the p4 and put on a thick sponge lp sp I can have short pips, ox lp, and sponged lp.

Right now I'm holding myself to learning the short pips and rising dragon, so no changing! Now ill check back in a week, well maybe tomorrow for a start, and see if I still have them glued on! I may be less consistent for a bit, but I have more fun varying the spin and I wont be knocking on the pro tour door any time soon so I choose fun :clap:

Have you settled on a chopper or choppers to imitate?

I think wu was using skyline 3 and recently swapped to Haifu dolphin shortpips, who knows,

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PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 22:25 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Yeah they're linear in that you get out what you put in. Whereas the tenergy sponge really springs the ball out on you. Less effort but less control (short game) usually for most people -- some say they get more control off the table with tenergy since it doesn't take a full swing to get it back quickly.

I'm already tired of the fl2! But I've got enough blades so I'm leaving it on and putting the rising dragon on my hadraw shield with short pips. Now I've got 3 setups, all with different rubbers and I might as well just leave them all alone! I think ill take off the p4 and put on a thick sponge lp sp I can have short pips, ox lp, and sponged lp.

Right now I'm holding myself to learning the short pips and rising dragon, so no changing! Now ill check back in a week, well maybe tomorrow for a start, and see if I still have them glued on! I may be less consistent for a bit, but I have more fun varying the spin and I wont be knocking on the pro tour door any time soon so I choose fun :clap:

Have you settled on a chopper or choppers to imitate?

I think wu was using skyline 3 and recently swapped to Haifu dolphin shortpips, who knows,


Pushing/chopping and controlled hitting are much better with H3 it seems and fishing and generally being aggressive away from the table is better with Acuda (which would be the same with Tenergy I'd bet). Spin on topspins is easier to get with Acuda but I think H3 might actually have more spin on harder swings. I'm going to properly test all this though as I now have my second Joo blade.

Man, you go through rubbers fast! lol. Not long ago you seemed to really like FL2 :). I think it's great though that you're using three blades for different setups. If I find that I keep on experimenting, I may end up getting a third bat as well though. For now, I'm focused on finding one setup I like.

Fun is the main thing, and experimenting with rubbers is definitely one of the more interesting experiences in table tennis.

What do you mean by "a chopper or choppers to imitate"?

Have you tried Haifu Dolphin short pips?

I would be interested in reading about why pros change equipment, but it's already hard enough just finding what they use. I wish it was a more open sport in that respect.

I used a XIOM table tennis varnish on my second Joo blade, but I hope I haven't ruined it. I tried to glue rubbers on it this morning and they wouldn't stay on the blade. I've since sanded the blade and now they seem to stick. Just hope I haven't affected its playability, as I've read varnish can mess with how a blade feels. Put Acuda on one side and P4 on the other (had to take P4 off and put it back on again, and the rubber is now all skewed; very soft rubber). After a bounce test I'm surprised by the speed of P4 (bounces higher than H3). It's only a little slower than Acuda when just bouncing the ball, whereas FL3 is dead. When I use wrist to spin the ball though, FL3 creates some noticeable spin. P4 doesn't produce as much spin doing the test. H3 gets more spin than Acuda on the same test, but obviously Acuda is a lot more lively. Looking forward to testing the rubbers side by side.

My second Joo blade is noticeably heavier, but I haven't weighed it. When all the rubbers are off I'll weigh them both, as I'm thinking there may be a 10 gram or more difference in weight.

Question. Have you played against short pip attackers with P4 or FL3? Even with short pips, it was harder to fool a short pip attacker with spin variations than an inverted player (though I still did it anyway, but tried to bring my attack into the mix more). Just curious about how much the reduced spin range of P4 and FL3 comes into play here.

_________________
Standard Equipment
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 24 May 2018, 03:54 
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Blade: Innershield ZLF
FH: Chop-City!
BH: Curl P-4 OX
Sealing can affect the way it plays. I know some dealers don't even offer blade sealing, as they think it changes the characteristics too much. I haven't really found it to matter all that much. If you are an OX player I think it has more relevance, since it alters the hardness a bit and such.

With your joo blade, I'd say the different weights would be far more substantial than any sealing or non-sealing. I've got joo weights going from 94? to 110 grams. That's near a 20 gram change! My suggestion is to weigh your favorite blade, then request the dealer find one of the same weight +/- 1. Even then it doesn't guarantee the blades "feel" identical.

The reason I go through so many rubbers is because of the style change I was forced in to. And on that note, I failed to make it! Gave the wrist a testing yesterday, held up nicely and felt wonderful playing my old style. The forehand had improved by leaps and bounds offensively -- becoming a REAL weapon! While the backhand looping was a bit tentative, and I was even chopping much more than I probably should have. From playing exclusively as a chopper for half a year or so, my muscle memory was to instinctively chop the ball in cases that needed attacking. For that setup, I use a timo boll w7 with impartial XB forehand and tenergy 80 fx on the backhand. Forehand smashes / backhand loops and chops. And to be honest, it was the funnest time I've had playing in recent memory! It's a better style fit for me -- body type wise and mentality.

Chopping is still a lot of fun, though I struggle utilizing it in games since I'm naturally more of a blocker/hitter. So long as my wrist holds up without issue, I'll be pursuing the SP/INV combo I have now -- keeping my chopping setup as the innershield/hadraw shield with FL2 on it when called for.

As for imitating choppers, are there any players you are trying to model your game after?

In regards to playing short pip attackers/hitters (like myself!) -- yes p4 and fl3 are somewhat of a liability. Any ball over net height can be slammed back, quite hard. I think what you have to do with them is to play heavy spin and/or keep the ball as low as you can. Since they won't give you much spin to reverse, and you can't generate a ton with the LP, they are able to flat smash through the ball more easily.

Here are a few examples of short pips vs choppers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWb5D8T72Hg&t=169s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9zNo-EgHOo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZSUxZAOc0k&t=633s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ToF8fcu52k

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Tenergy 80 fx 1.7
Backhand: Curl p-4 OX


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PostPosted: 28 May 2018, 05:29 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Sealing can affect the way it plays. I know some dealers don't even offer blade sealing, as they think it changes the characteristics too much. I haven't really found it to matter all that much. If you are an OX player I think it has more relevance, since it alters the hardness a bit and such.

With your joo blade, I'd say the different weights would be far more substantial than any sealing or non-sealing. I've got joo weights going from 94? to 110 grams. That's near a 20 gram change! My suggestion is to weigh your favorite blade, then request the dealer find one of the same weight +/- 1. Even then it doesn't guarantee the blades "feel" identical.

The reason I go through so many rubbers is because of the style change I was forced in to. And on that note, I failed to make it! Gave the wrist a testing yesterday, held up nicely and felt wonderful playing my old style. The forehand had improved by leaps and bounds offensively -- becoming a REAL weapon! While the backhand looping was a bit tentative, and I was even chopping much more than I probably should have. From playing exclusively as a chopper for half a year or so, my muscle memory was to instinctively chop the ball in cases that needed attacking. For that setup, I use a timo boll w7 with impartial XB forehand and tenergy 80 fx on the backhand. Forehand smashes / backhand loops and chops. And to be honest, it was the funnest time I've had playing in recent memory! It's a better style fit for me -- body type wise and mentality.

Chopping is still a lot of fun, though I struggle utilizing it in games since I'm naturally more of a blocker/hitter. So long as my wrist holds up without issue, I'll be pursuing the SP/INV combo I have now -- keeping my chopping setup as the innershield/hadraw shield with FL2 on it when called for.

As for imitating choppers, are there any players you are trying to model your game after?

In regards to playing short pip attackers/hitters (like myself!) -- yes p4 and fl3 are somewhat of a liability. Any ball over net height can be slammed back, quite hard. I think what you have to do with them is to play heavy spin and/or keep the ball as low as you can. Since they won't give you much spin to reverse, and you can't generate a ton with the LP, they are able to flat smash through the ball more easily.

Here are a few examples of short pips vs choppers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWb5D8T72Hg&t=169s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9zNo-EgHOo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZSUxZAOc0k&t=633s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ToF8fcu52k


Been playing a tennis tournament this past week so haven't had the chance to test the rubber yet. I did however get a tennis mate to pick up my other bat and hit a few shots with me. He's not a table tennis player, so I couldn't properly test it, but still, P4 is noticeably quicker. It didn't really feel that much different to FL3 apart from the speed (maybe a tad softer, which it of course is). I think it will be my new backhand rubber shortly, but I'll reserve judgment till I test it against heavy top spins etc.

How much of the difference in speed is down to the varnish I don't know.

Yea, next time I order a blade I'll just get two at the same time and ask for them to be a similar weight. It's pretty crazy how poor quality control is.

So you used to be an attacker off both wings? That's some change. Impartial XB is a fast short pips rubber, no? I imagine chopping would require excellent timing, but the attacking and spin variation aspects would be a lot better. Do you mean that the short pips/inverted setup works best for you?

Ma Te all the way when it comes to who I want to 'imitate'. My favourite defender is Joo Sae-Hyuk (I know, he's the favourite of most defenders) because I love his warrior spirit and how he digs deep in tough matches, but I think he takes the scenic route far too often. By that I mean he wins or loses the hard way and relies on his offense (which is excellent) to actually win points in my opinion. Ma Te's defense is a weapon in itself, and that's how I like to try and use my defense. Sure, my goal is to setup attacking opportunities, but I'm also trying to win before setting them up by forcing errors.

Interestingly, a YouTuber who met him (and holds his bat up to the camera) has finally revealed what equipment Ma Te actually uses. He uses a Victas Offensive blade (which I'm sure is customized), Hurricane 3 National on his forehand, and 1.5mm long pips on his backhand (which are 'secret'...). Maybe I'm on the right track with Hurricane and 1.5mm long pips :P .

Cheers for linking the vids! From watching them, it looks like I'll have to compensate for less spin with LPs against SPs with my forehand. That's another problem for me at the moment though. I've built my offense around the idea that I can hit off both wings fairly equally, so I never really developed the proper footwork to move around my backhand. I'm working on it these days, but it will take a while for it to become natural I think.

_________________
Standard Equipment
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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