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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2018, 07:00 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I'd think if you like FL3, then the curl p4 might be one worth trying as well. Perhaps in the thickest sponge if you're wanting more spin manipulation. It's pretty similar to the FL3 in that it's got pretty high grip on its own merit.

I've only used the p1r in OX, and didn't find it too great for my style. It had some grip, enough to attack with consistently but not very high disturbance (close to the table blocking/hitting) -- to the point where I might as well be using medium pips or something. Can't argue off the table, as it's probably the most used pip for chopping. I do think it relies more on incoming spin than something like FL3 though. So against heavy loopers it's probably better. I didn't care for it compared to many others, at least in the OX. Not bad by any means, just not exceptional for me.

For chopping, I'm sticking with FL3 and that's my story (EJ virus serum :party: )! The FL3 just feels so secure, in that it can generate enough back spin to keep them honest -- yet if they loop heavy, it's slick enough to chop them back pretty easily where something like short pips might struggle to keep the ball low. But the p1r being less grippy by itself, converts more of the incoming top spin to back spin (the FL3 kills a bit of spin if you're too slow on the chop etc). So at high levels I see why the p1r is used. At least in my estimation...

So for your style, is it similar to viktoria pavlovich? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYPqku9Y0gE

She's a feint user as well, with a bit more defensive orientation.

And if you have a scale handy, do you think you could weigh the uncut victas rubber? I've always heard it's heavy but don't recall seeing a weight listed!


Curl P4 was on my list, but I took it off as it seems to be very similar to Feint Long 3. I think if I scratch off Dtechs in 1.6mm and Curl P1R in 1.4-1.7mm, I'll put P4 back on my list :). So, in a way, it is on my list :p.

Surprised to hear that you found Curl P1R to not produce a difficult ball. From what I've read, it seems to be one of harder ones to play (at the cost of being harder to play with). Maybe its quality lies only in its chopping. I'm definitely looking forward to testing the rubber myself though, as many great defenders seem to use it. I want to see what the fuss is about :).

FL3 is super secure, yea. I really love this rubber. My only problem with it is that it is slow, very slow. I can hit well with it but getting one shot winners is very difficult an it doesn't even seem to bother opponents with strange bounces or anything. However, its slowness is part of what makes it so exceptional for defending. As you say, it's easy to chop back heavy loops consistently and with a low throw, something that is much harder to do with SPs.

I just watched the video of Viktoria Pavlovich you linked. Very enjoyable match. I'd say that is very much my style 5 years ago, and is 80% my style now. I hit more often these days. If I was playing an equivalent match to that one, I would have hit probably 1 in 3 of my opponents pushes.

I haven't received the Victas VS > 401 rubber in the post yet (hopefully I will by Saturday), but when I do I will weigh it and post it here. It is meant to be heavy, yea, so I've decided that I won't test it on my current blade. I'm also waiting on a Joo Sae-Hyuk ST blade so I will test it on that, as it is likely lighter than my current blade. I know the Hyuk blade is heavy, but my blade is weighted for hardbat rubbers, not sponge. My wrist is feeling the strain using sponge on my current blade.

I tested a sheet of Donic Acuda S1 (max thickness) today, and man is it fast! No way would I ever use a rubber like that in max thickness, but I was given it to try. After about 10-15 minutes my attacks were dialed in. I was even looping, which was surprising. It was basically assisted attacking, like assisted driving in a video game lol. My practice partner said I should abandon chopping on my forehand and use the rubber, as I was generating so much pace and spin with it that it was pushing his bat back. As brilliant as it was for hitting, chopping was definitely a struggle. Only at the end of our session was I able to start chopping with any consistency. I was getting much more backspin with it than my previous rubbers though. This test has got me thinking that one of the Tenergy rubbers in 1.7 or 1.9mm might not be as much of a stretch for me right now as I previously thought.

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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2018, 13:24 
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I think you could definitely chop with the faster rubbers, even in thick sponges. Just takes some getting used to the throw angles, grip pressure, etc. Especially on the forehand side!

I moved down to .5 sponge with FL3 just because it is so slow. They only sell .5 and 1.3 in the places I was buying from. Was tired of the mushy sponge and having to power the ball back hard each time just to get some decent distance. But I was coming from OX, which had much faster rebounds. I was even thinking of trying curl p4 in OX just to have the similar grip of FL3 but with no sponge, and less spin variation as a result but steadier returns.

I would think you coming from short pips, that FL3 would seem much more at home to you -- and the p1r might take a little more getting used to. But at any rate, either of them should do nicely. I think why p1r is seen as more "deceptive" is because fl3 kills the spin if giving a passive stroke, whereas the p1r does have some reversal and as a result can do some "unexpected" kind of returns. Just meaning that the person has to account for their own spin, on top of what the p1r user is putting on the ball. But the FL3 is kind of like short pips to a degree, and the spins are more transparent if they watch how the FL3 chopper is stroking the ball. That's my take on it, who knows how accurate it is!

I've had a 110 gram joo, a 99 and now also a 94 gram (which is almost mythically light in the current production!). However, I don't like any of them! Blade feels too clunky for my preference.

Let me know how your victas and joo turn out! I'm back to debating if I should return to the backhand attacking style (with OX long pips curl PH), or maintain my chopping power :devil: Sure is a lot of fun!

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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2018, 18:58 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I think you could definitely chop with the faster rubbers, even in thick sponges. Just takes some getting used to the throw angles, grip pressure, etc. Especially on the forehand side!

I moved down to .5 sponge with FL3 just because it is so slow. They only sell .5 and 1.3 in the places I was buying from. Was tired of the mushy sponge and having to power the ball back hard each time just to get some decent distance. But I was coming from OX, which had much faster rebounds. I was even thinking of trying curl p4 in OX just to have the similar grip of FL3 but with no sponge, and less spin variation as a result but steadier returns.

I would think you coming from short pips, that FL3 would seem much more at home to you -- and the p1r might take a little more getting used to. But at any rate, either of them should do nicely. I think why p1r is seen as more "deceptive" is because fl3 kills the spin if giving a passive stroke, whereas the p1r does have some reversal and as a result can do some "unexpected" kind of returns. Just meaning that the person has to account for their own spin, on top of what the p1r user is putting on the ball. But the FL3 is kind of like short pips to a degree, and the spins are more transparent if they watch how the FL3 chopper is stroking the ball. That's my take on it, who knows how accurate it is!

I've had a 110 gram joo, a 99 and now also a 94 gram (which is almost mythically light in the current production!). However, I don't like any of them! Blade feels too clunky for my preference.

Let me know how your victas and joo turn out! I'm back to debating if I should return to the backhand attacking style (with OX long pips curl PH), or maintain my chopping power :devil: Sure is a lot of fun!


Chopping is possible with anything for sure. While I was definitely getting used to chopping with Acuda S1 max at the end of the session, it still felt a lot safer to just topspin the ball instead. I had so much control with anything that I hit it was crazy. It seems to attack like Feint Long 3 chops. Chopping seems like it would always be a riskier shot with a rubber of that speed and in that thickness. Who knows though, it's possible with enough experience chopping with the rubber that could change. I like being a chopper though and I don't really want to mostly topspin with my forehand like say Ruwen Filus. There's something very rewarding about being under fire from a strong attacker, chopping everything back, backhand and forehand, and then capitalizing on the opportunity to put the ball away :). A pro example of this is one of the last points of a match between Joo Sae-Hyuk and Timo Boll in 2011. Check out the link below and fast forward to 8.42. You've probably seen this rally, but it's awesome!



TSP Curl P4 is meant to be a tad faster than FL3 is it not? Still slow, but faster. If you want to attack with OX LPs though wouldn't a more dangerous one be better? I imagine even FL3 and P4 in OX wouldn't be deadly and you would lose quite
bit of spin manipulation. The grip may help though to keep a constant attack up. I guess which route you go, mostly hit or chop on your backhand, depends on what you have more fun doing balanced with what's the most effective for you.

I totally agree with your take on FL3. I think it's a very transparent rubber to use and play against. Nothing weird seems to happen playing with it and my opponents don't seem to be getting any weird shots back from it. One guy said I was getting wobbly unreadable returns, but then I realized it was all in his head when he said it after I hit a topspin stroke with my short pips on my forehand... The power of the mind. I have yet to play with Curl P1R though so I can't speak from experience there, but your thoughts seem spot on.

I've heard about Hyuk blades varying a lot in weight. I hope I get one around 100 grams. Out of respect for Marty Reisman, I think I need to put hardbat rubbers back on his blade and I'll just use the Hyuk blade as my main bat with FL3 etc. It's likely faster than my Reisman blade, so it might speed up my FL3. I can't imagine I will hate the blade. I'll post my thoughts on the blade and the Victas VS > 401 (and its weight) rubbers when I use them.

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Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
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Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 00:43 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I think tenergy 05 is the most common in pros, but the "best" defenders arguably use tenergy 64 more often. Just thinking of Joo here :lol: and Seo Hyo Won


Joo has been using T05 for quite some time, and so have most top attacking defenders (Gionis, Filus....). Look for a post under Joo's thread where one of the forum members met him and looked at his setup. He even took pictures of it. I believe he switched to the 05 as a result of ITTF forcing players to switch to the plastic ball.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 03:14 
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notfound123 wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
I think tenergy 05 is the most common in pros, but the "best" defenders arguably use tenergy 64 more often. Just thinking of Joo here :lol: and Seo Hyo Won


Joo has been using T05 for quite some time, and so have most top attacking defenders (Gionis, Filus....). Look for a post under Joo's thread where one of the forum members met him and looked at his setup. He even took pictures of it. I believe he switched to the 05 as a result of ITTF forcing players to switch to the plastic ball.



Yeah, he very may well be using t05 or swapping back and forth depending on the ball used for each tournament etc. Similar to him swapping between d.techs and p1r.

At any rate, for the amateur players I think any tenergy will work for them -- just a matter of preference.

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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 03:42 
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Snowman89 wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
I think you could definitely chop with the faster rubbers, even in thick sponges. Just takes some getting used to the throw angles, grip pressure, etc. Especially on the forehand side!

I moved down to .5 sponge with FL3 just because it is so slow. They only sell .5 and 1.3 in the places I was buying from. Was tired of the mushy sponge and having to power the ball back hard each time just to get some decent distance. But I was coming from OX, which had much faster rebounds. I was even thinking of trying curl p4 in OX just to have the similar grip of FL3 but with no sponge, and less spin variation as a result but steadier returns.

I would think you coming from short pips, that FL3 would seem much more at home to you -- and the p1r might take a little more getting used to. But at any rate, either of them should do nicely. I think why p1r is seen as more "deceptive" is because fl3 kills the spin if giving a passive stroke, whereas the p1r does have some reversal and as a result can do some "unexpected" kind of returns. Just meaning that the person has to account for their own spin, on top of what the p1r user is putting on the ball. But the FL3 is kind of like short pips to a degree, and the spins are more transparent if they watch how the FL3 chopper is stroking the ball. That's my take on it, who knows how accurate it is!

I've had a 110 gram joo, a 99 and now also a 94 gram (which is almost mythically light in the current production!). However, I don't like any of them! Blade feels too clunky for my preference.

Let me know how your victas and joo turn out! I'm back to debating if I should return to the backhand attacking style (with OX long pips curl PH), or maintain my chopping power :devil: Sure is a lot of fun!


Chopping is possible with anything for sure. While I was definitely getting used to chopping with Acuda S1 max at the end of the session, it still felt a lot safer to just topspin the ball instead. I had so much control with anything that I hit it was crazy. It seems to attack like Feint Long 3 chops. Chopping seems like it would always be a riskier shot with a rubber of that speed and in that thickness. Who knows though, it's possible with enough experience chopping with the rubber that could change. I like being a chopper though and I don't really want to mostly topspin with my forehand like say Ruwen Filus. There's something very rewarding about being under fire from a strong attacker, chopping everything back, backhand and forehand, and then capitalizing on the opportunity to put the ball away :). A pro example of this is one of the last points of a match between Joo Sae-Hyuk and Timo Boll in 2011. Check out the link below and fast forward to 8.42. You've probably seen this rally, but it's awesome!



TSP Curl P4 is meant to be a tad faster than FL3 is it not? Still slow, but faster. If you want to attack with OX LPs though wouldn't a more dangerous one be better? I imagine even FL3 and P4 in OX wouldn't be deadly and you would lose quite
bit of spin manipulation. The grip may help though to keep a constant attack up. I guess which route you go, mostly hit or chop on your backhand, depends on what you have more fun doing balanced with what's the most effective for you.

I totally agree with your take on FL3. I think it's a very transparent rubber to use and play against. Nothing weird seems to happen playing with it and my opponents don't seem to be getting any weird shots back from it. One guy said I was getting wobbly unreadable returns, but then I realized it was all in his head when he said it after I hit a topspin stroke with my short pips on my forehand... The power of the mind. I have yet to play with Curl P1R though so I can't speak from experience there, but your thoughts seem spot on.

I've heard about Hyuk blades varying a lot in weight. I hope I get one around 100 grams. Out of respect for Marty Reisman, I think I need to put hardbat rubbers back on his blade and I'll just use the Hyuk blade as my main bat with FL3 etc. It's likely faster than my Reisman blade, so it might speed up my FL3. I can't imagine I will hate the blade. I'll post my thoughts on the blade and the Victas VS > 401 (and its weight) rubbers when I use them.


I use the curl PH (long pip with grip, made for hitting generally) on a fast blade. Agreed, that the FL3 types are too slow and not really different enough (spin wise) from short pips or inverted to mess anyone up.

It's fun returning those balls that are 'suicide attacks' from the offensive players. Where they do some big wind up and send it off wide to a corner, then stay turned away expecting a winner -- only to have the ball come floating back, bouncing on the table! And I think it makes for the best action when defender faces strong attacker. Flipside is, of course... can be pretty boring if no one attacks!

For play styles, most of the women choppers seem to play more defensively on the forehand. Though with the new ball, the more successful ones have upped their attacking ratios.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32054

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32392

This girl uses curl p1r in OX for an attacking game - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=31917

and another LP attacker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeYF_V3Vf6g&t=671s

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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 05:22 
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notfound123 wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
I think tenergy 05 is the most common in pros, but the "best" defenders arguably use tenergy 64 more often. Just thinking of Joo here :lol: and Seo Hyo Won


Joo has been using T05 for quite some time, and so have most top attacking defenders (Gionis, Filus....). Look for a post under Joo's thread where one of the forum members met him and looked at his setup. He even took pictures of it. I believe he switched to the 05 as a result of ITTF forcing players to switch to the plastic ball.


I saw an interview with him where he said he needs to attack more with the new ball, as there is less spin when chopping. The higher throw of Tenergy 05 would be better for attacking and generating more spin. It would surely make his chops higher as well though no?

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Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 06:11 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I use the curl PH (long pip with grip, made for hitting generally) on a fast blade. Agreed, that the FL3 types are too slow and not really different enough (spin wise) from short pips or inverted to mess anyone up.

It's fun returning those balls that are 'suicide attacks' from the offensive players. Where they do some big wind up and send it off wide to a corner, then stay turned away expecting a winner -- only to have the ball come floating back, bouncing on the table! And I think it makes for the best action when defender faces strong attacker. Flipside is, of course... can be pretty boring if no one attacks!

For play styles, most of the women choppers seem to play more defensively on the forehand. Though with the new ball, the more successful ones have upped their attacking ratios.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32054

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32392

This girl uses curl p1r in OX for an attacking game - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=31917

and another LP attacker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeYF_V3Vf6g&t=671s


Cheers for the links! I saw the the Australian nationals one, but none of the others. Always great to see new players, but I'll admit I'm extra keen when it comes to defenders :). Not enough of us around.

Upping the attack ratio is definitely important for defenders in modern tt. Still, at what point does the ratio become pointless in that you may as well become an attacker? Part of the appeal of the defensive style for me is that it is artistic. It's great to watch defenders and play defensively. Perhaps further advancements in rubbers is what is needed to help defenders generate more spin again...

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Standard Equipment
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 16:41 
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Snowman89 wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
I use the curl PH (long pip with grip, made for hitting generally) on a fast blade. Agreed, that the FL3 types are too slow and not really different enough (spin wise) from short pips or inverted to mess anyone up.

It's fun returning those balls that are 'suicide attacks' from the offensive players. Where they do some big wind up and send it off wide to a corner, then stay turned away expecting a winner -- only to have the ball come floating back, bouncing on the table! And I think it makes for the best action when defender faces strong attacker. Flipside is, of course... can be pretty boring if no one attacks!

For play styles, most of the women choppers seem to play more defensively on the forehand. Though with the new ball, the more successful ones have upped their attacking ratios.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32054

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32392

This girl uses curl p1r in OX for an attacking game - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=31917

and another LP attacker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeYF_V3Vf6g&t=671s


Cheers for the links! I saw the the Australian nationals one, but none of the others. Always great to see new players, but I'll admit I'm extra keen when it comes to defenders :). Not enough of us around.

Upping the attack ratio is definitely important for defenders in modern tt. Still, at what point does the ratio become pointless in that you may as well become an attacker? Part of the appeal of the defensive style for me is that it is artistic. It's great to watch defenders and play defensively. Perhaps further advancements in rubbers is what is needed to help defenders generate more spin again...


I think it comes down to mentality as well. I would say it's harder to defend than to attack, most of the time. To play purely classical defense against a good opponent is quite difficult!

But again, on the amateur level I think that's still a fine approach to take if your personality allows it.

I played about 3.5 hours today, and was mainly doing forehand attacks. Perhaps chopping a wide ball to my forehand or a low one I couldn't reach in time -- and then using the backhand to attack with the pips or chop. For me, it really drove home the point of attacking people until they force me to defend. So if they won't take the initiative, then I will! And generally speaking, they aren't defenders themselves so it's not as if they're waiting for me to attack them etc. Anyway, it was a lot of fun! Maybe you'll feel the same way once you get the forehand loop to consistent and lethal levels :lol:

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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 20:29 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I think it comes down to mentality as well. I would say it's harder to defend than to attack, most of the time. To play purely classical defense against a good opponent is quite difficult!

But again, on the amateur level I think that's still a fine approach to take if your personality allows it.

I played about 3.5 hours today, and was mainly doing forehand attacks. Perhaps chopping a wide ball to my forehand or a low one I couldn't reach in time -- and then using the backhand to attack with the pips or chop. For me, it really drove home the point of attacking people until they force me to defend. So if they won't take the initiative, then I will! And generally speaking, they aren't defenders themselves so it's not as if they're waiting for me to attack them etc. Anyway, it was a lot of fun! Maybe you'll feel the same way once you get the forehand loop to consistent and lethal levels :lol:


Agreed, defending at higher levels is tougher than attacking. This is what I have found as well when I have competed at a higher level than mine, where I need to take extra risks. This is why I've started rethinking my equipment in recent months (experimenting with long pips and now inverted). With any pip really I've found I need to take the ball ideally when it's higher than the net if I want to be aggressive. Sure, I can semi loop with short pips away from the table, but it's only effective against lower levels of play. Against stronger players I find I don't get many opportunities to take the ball when it's higher than the net, unless I want to attack their loops. Again though, I need to be close to the table, which isn't always possible when you're being pushed back. This is where inverted comes in, as I could be attack from chopping positions when needed. I've found this to be the case with my first two sessions with Acuda S1.

Still, I like being a defender. For example, I'm more into Joo Sae-Hyuk (chops off both wings and attacks where possible) than Ruwen Filus (who doesn't chop with his forehand). I'll admit, however, that the power, spin, and attacking control of Acuda S1 max thickness so far is a real pleasure to play with. Going down a notch by using a thinner sponge or a slower rubber is logical though if I want to maintain my defense. We'll see how it goes when I directly compare Victas VS > 401 1.8mm to Donic Acuda S1 max. I'll also get some feedback from practices.

"For me, it really drove home the point of attacking people until they force me to defend." I like this. That's how I want to play. I would like to get to the point where I can just as easily trade with an opponent of equal skill as defend. The more options you have as a defender the better. I have a good finishing attack and I can exchange with players lower in level than myself, but I think I lack the kind of control/reflexes needed for counter exchanges with players similar in level to myself. I'll need to do a lot of counter hitting training to get anywhere near this goal.

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Standard Equipment
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2018, 07:35 
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I had developed a good loop against back spin, so any time they pushed the ball or tried to keep drinking it back I could attack. And that deterred them from doing so much in the future. Just now working on a decent attack against top spin... though if they have any pace I will chop them back by habit. It's mainly the lower spin low shots I'm really going after now to loop hard.

Having a good offensive gear also keeps the other guy honest. Against passive defenders they know they can keep hitting the ball back so long as it hits the table, without facing much trouble. But if you play offensively on loose balls, it forces them to play lower margin shots so you wont be able to attack. That in turn draws out more errors from them etc.

**I also am waiting on my sheet of curl p4 to arrive! I liked the fl3 but they don't sell it in ox so I'm trying out the p4 in ox and hoping it does what I want! Namely being a bit faster, more direct but still capable of changing spins on own.

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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2018, 19:44 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I had developed a good loop against back spin, so any time they pushed the ball or tried to keep drinking it back I could attack. And that deterred them from doing so much in the future. Just now working on a decent attack against top spin... though if they have any pace I will chop them back by habit. It's mainly the lower spin low shots I'm really going after now to loop hard.

Having a good offensive gear also keeps the other guy honest. Against passive defenders they know they can keep hitting the ball back so long as it hits the table, without facing much trouble. But if you play offensively on loose balls, it forces them to play lower margin shots so you wont be able to attack. That in turn draws out more errors from them etc.

**I also am waiting on my sheet of curl p4 to arrive! I liked the fl3 but they don't sell it in ox so I'm trying out the p4 in ox and hoping it does what I want! Namely being a bit faster, more direct but still capable of changing spins on own.


Keeping them honest, exactly :). I'm looking forward to getting comfortable with an inverted rubber and being able to change the pace when I want to and rush/pressure my opponents more than I currently do. I'm also struggling to attack top spin so far though. My options at the moment seem to be to top spin a top spin, block, or chop, not hit through it. I guess that's one of the few advantages of short pips that I won't be getting anymore. Maybe it's just about increasing the speed of your top spins when hitting against top spin.

I'm starting to think I could potentially handle a fast max thickness inverted (though I will give it some time before I decide). Chopping is not as difficult as I previously thought, it just requires a different touch. Sure, under a lot of pressure when you need to absorb power when you're out of position, defending with fast rubbers might be a liability, but then again you could counter loop/hit/fish these kinds of shots. I would then have the all the pop and spin of such a rubber at my disposal when it comes to forcing my attack on my opponent. I also wonder whether chopping with a fast rubber might actually be more difficult for your opponent to return, as it goes back faster, making variations in spin harder to spot.

Let me know what you think of P4 compared to FL3. I'm curious. I'm still waiting on the Victas rubber and the Hyuk blade...

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Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 04:59 
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Tested Victas VS > 401 today (sorry, I forgot to weigh it before cutting it to fit my blade...). It's a little heavier than Donic Acuda S1, but reviews saying it's ridiculously heavy I think are exaggerating things. However, it was definitely not love at first hit. I'm going to give this rubber a few more sessions, but I'm not loving it right now.

I'll start with the positives:
- Chopping is excellent. It's very easy to generate a ton of backspin and mix it up with floats. It's actually a wonderful chopping inverted rubber. Low arc going back as well, so it makes it that bit harder for your opponent to lift it. Consistency is pretty good too, as it's easy to place your chops where you want them and get back tough shots.
- Accuracy. This rubber is very straight, as in your shots seem to go exactly where you want them to.

Now for the negatives:
- It doesn't do anything 'deadly', minus perhaps chop the ass off the ball. It was generally easy for me to play with, but it was also super easy for my practice partner. Aside from heavy chops, there's nothing I really felt I could do with it. I may as well continue using my 802 if it was a choice between the two, as I hit harder and more consistently with 802, and my chops generate a similar level of spin. Both are also very straight in trajectory, minus that you can loop with 401.
- Counter looping was extra difficult. It's already difficult for me at the moment, as I'm only just getting back into inverted. However, it was a lot easier to counter hit/loop with Acuda S1. With Acuda, the ball seemed to drop more when looping, meaning I felt I had more control when being aggressive, not to mention that it just gives a significantly more difficult ball for your opponent. With 401, many counter loops just went vertical off the table. Sure, more practice with the rubber will stop that from happening, but I will only put such effort into a rubber if its strengths are worth it.

I've read that it gets better after a few sessions, so I'll give it time. However, from past experience, not just in table tennis, your gut feeling is usually right. I don't have a good feeling about this rubber, not to say that it's bad or anything. It actually seems to be a pretty decent rubber, but it would probably work a lot better on the backhand if you want to replace pips .

A sheet of DHS Hurricane 3 NEO has kind of fallen into my hands so I'm going to try that one next. If none of these, I think I'm going to go ahead and get Tenergy 05 or Tenergy 05 FX.

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Standard Equipment
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 11:30 
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Blade: Innershield ZLF
FH: Chop-City!
BH: Curl P-4 OX
Sounds about as expected. The chop oriented rubbers suffer on the offense etc. And how tacky is the 401? That would probably be quite a change as well from pips.

I've got nittaku revspin on another blade, which is a chop/loop rubber marketing wise. Kind of a tensor type rubber on a slower sponge. Its grippy and all that good stuff, but lacks the gears of tenergy and I actually chop worse with it currently since I'm so used to the tenergy, despite being faster.

Realistically any of them should work, once you get used to it. Just comes down the feel you prefer.

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PostPosted: 27 Apr 2018, 09:15 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Sounds about as expected. The chop oriented rubbers suffer on the offense etc. And how tacky is the 401? That would probably be quite a change as well from pips.

I've got nittaku revspin on another blade, which is a chop/loop rubber marketing wise. Kind of a tensor type rubber on a slower sponge. Its grippy and all that good stuff, but lacks the gears of tenergy and I actually chop worse with it currently since I'm so used to the tenergy, despite being faster.

Realistically any of them should work, once you get used to it. Just comes down the feel you prefer.


When I think about it, yea, it does what it says on the tin. It's not actually tacky though, not at all. Hurricane 3 Neo is though, which I've put on my bat to test before I go ahead and buy some Tenergy.

I'm thinking of getting Tenergy 05 FX in max thickness... After just three sessions with Acuda S1 max thickness I was starting to feel I could get the hang of it. I also liked how swirly the ball was when I hit, blocked, or chopped with it, making it harder for my hitting partner. I think that 'swirly' quality was partly down to the thickness of the sponge. I'll think about it. Might be best to just get it in 1.9mm and see how that works out.

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Standard Equipment
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - Butterfly Feint Long III 1.1mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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