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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 04:09 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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I've noticed that some of the newer long pips that have come out and been designed with the new polyball in mind have been stiffer than old pips. Some examples are the Sauer & Troger Schmerz, the Pimplepark Wobbler or Spinlord Strahlcraft. Dr. N Gangster's pips, while still decently soft, are not as soft as the Viper's. Is there a pattern here? My theory is that, perhaps, because of the ball's greater weight, stiffer/firmer pips are necessary to impart an effect that softer pips could previously impart to the old, lighter ball. Anyone have any views on this?

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I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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Last edited by TraditionalTradesman on 30 Jan 2018, 06:15, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 05:53 
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I don't have an answer but yours is a descent theory.... But I think that for Long pips, there seems to be a trend toward allround pips that can be used for blocking, chop blocking, and hitting more at the table, while still being capable of chopping off the table. Even the choppers in this area are blocking more at the table. Pure chopping, or pure blocking is just not as lucrative with the new ball. I'd think that the money in LP sales is likely in allround pips that are fairly dangerous at the table, but usable for chopping, in both sponge and OX. It could be I am just inserting my personal experience in this regard, and I could be way off.

I saw highest rated chopper/coach in this region practicing chop blocks, and hits more. Could have been a coincidence.
Jian Li, Gustaf Ericson are both hybrid choppers who block/push in the short game. JL more so.
Easy P is stiffer. Works well for chopping, but designed more for at the table.
People chopping with Dtecs and Hellfire, but able to be at the table with sponge using those 2 pips.
Dornenglanz OX, stiff-ish, great for passive blocking but great for chopping. Tacky tips, slippery sides.

Similarly, on the attacking inverted rubber side, the trend is towards linear rubbers that are still dangerous for topspinning with a focus on feeling (Regalis, Karis, etc).

The advent of the polyball and its lack of spin has sent all players to the stores in search of a rubber that will help them deal with the change. Both defense and offense. And rubber manufactures are like.. :cash: :cash: Kaching!! :cash: :cash:

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 07:32 
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That's a good theory, but if I remember correctly, the ball doesn't weigh more, but it's bigger.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 07:51 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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Lorre wrote:
That's a good theory, but if I remember correctly, the ball doesn't weigh more, but it's bigger.


What I really mean is that the new ball has less spin (whether that's a result of size or weight is less important), which, I think, has been the near-universal experience of those who've used it, and the result is that more force and friction are needed to control the ball and/or impart spin. Making long pips a bit more rigid allows them to achieve that objective. This isn't so much of an issue for passive reversal (where you're not trying to grip the ball and add spin, of course), but the problem with passive reversal is that because the new ball doesn't have as much spin in the first place, it's also going to have less passive spin reversal than the old ball upon contact with the rubber. As such, with the new ball, active play -- chopping or chop-blocking and being able to attack with pips as well -- becomes more critical to success, and for this, being able to grip the ball a bit and produce some of one's own spin is generally more essential. Stiffer pips are better at achieving that result with the less spinny ball. That's the general idea.

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I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 09:48 
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My experience, the stiff long pips with the new plastic ball are too hard to control, causing too many unforced errors.

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XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed


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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 10:11 
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LOOPOVER wrote:
My experience, the stiff long pips with the new plastic ball are too hard to control, causing too many unforced errors.


Curious: which ones have you tried that you found hard to control?

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I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 10:28 
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Ridgid pips can mean several different things depending on the friction level of their tips.

If it's stiff and high grip they act much more like a medium pip (curl PH)

And if they are stiff and have low grip (Palio ck531a) they have higher reversal.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 12:55 
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leatherback wrote:
Ridgid pips can mean several different things depending on the friction level of their tips.

If it's stiff and high grip they act much more like a medium pip (curl PH)

And if they are stiff and have low grip (Palio ck531a) they have higher reversal.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk


Yes, I think a bunch of these new ones are high grip. Certainly that's the case for the Pimplepark Wobbler and Spinlord Strahlkraft. Not totally sure about some of the others. The idea is to play more actively, in other words, to make up for the new ball's lower spin.

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I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 13:34 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
LOOPOVER wrote:
My experience, the stiff long pips with the new plastic ball are too hard to control, causing too many unforced errors.


Curious: which ones have you tried that you found hard to control?


Kokutaku 911 and Xiying 979

A beginner long pip player went from the stiff to soft, immediately had 25% more control.

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XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed


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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 15:18 
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For my level, with either ball, I do better with softer pips. The control is more important to me than adding more underspin, particularly with faster (better) players.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2018, 01:16 
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In Sweden, people who has their bats regulary checked (or just wants to use rubber that won't be questioned) use Dornenglanz ox (Fabian Åkerström, Gustaf Ericsson and some more) for hybrid style of blocking and chopping. Then there are a few high level lp-pushblockers (or the same style as Gustaf) who plays in second or third highest league, who all uses Yasaka Phantom 012. They are either very old (as flexable as carboard or wood) or perhaps modified. Fresh Phantom will probably not do it, but this rubber is known to last very long without loosing pips.

I think hard pips will work better for passive reversal. But like said before, with the new ball, there is hardly any spin in the first place....

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2018, 16:18 
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Def-attack wrote:
But like said before, with the new ball, there is hardly any spin in the first place....


Then why use long pips, if serve return is not a problem ?

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 07:13 
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LOOPOVER wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
But like said before, with the new ball, there is hardly any spin in the first place....


Then why use long pips, if serve return is not a problem ?


There is spin but it fades away much quicker, so serves has spin almost like before but when blocking loops there is clearly less spin than with previous balls.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2018, 11:17 
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LOOPOVER wrote:
My experience, the stiff long pips with the new plastic ball are too hard to control, causing too many unforced errors.


Agree with this!!

Just to augment this argument, when the temps drop to 10-15*C in some of our venues, rubbers become less pliable and malleable, they become stiffer to play with and on a hard blade, effect is lost when trying to manipulate spin in both defence and attack, it is frustrating to experience this, my game can fail over the evening as temps drop towards 0*C outside and to 10 -11*c inside, but i have studied these effects for a number of winters now to get to this conclusion with different LPs on different blades, for me soft Lps play best on a softish blade with this harder ball ie XSF!!!!

With this combo i can get effect on bump, chop, chopblock and wrist roll attack and have reasonable control in ox V most serves and all round table play!!
I mainly use GD CC on a JTHWS & GD TALON on a RI Hydra and OTHER different blades for my game!!!!

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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2018, 18:11 
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Stiffer pip give the better reversal, smooth pips give more deception , on poly ball era i would consider you need smooth pips for better decpetion ,the reversal is missing somehow..

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