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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 06:12 
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Blade: VKM
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Hey guys, first of all Hello :) I am new here although I have searched a fair bit on google and often referred to this website. Also was recommended to come here for information on long pips.
I have just today decided to commit to using long pips for a chopping orientated BH. I have been fighting it ever since the coach at my club told me to change styles 6months into TT. This was my natural style from the beginning but I was young and just listened to the coach. But I stopped playing for years and now I'm older and YouTube has got me too hyped up so I have officially committed and I am glad I did as I have never felt so natural again to play a BH and get super pumped every time I have to use my BH.

Anyway sorry for the long story and introduction....to the point now lol

Sorry if some of this has been covered before but some of my questions are a bit specific and haven't found info on some of them yet.

1. First off I just want to understand with the Victas blades VKM and VKMO, how fast or bouncy are these both compared to the Stiga ALL classic and Clipper?
2. Clipper with long pips? Anyone tried or plays or know anyone that plays with it? Wondering how it is and if it can work well.
3. I am using Dawei 388D but have Dtecs on the way (any advice/tips/experiences with these would be much appreciated). Also shedding some light on Curl PR1.
4. Is it gonna make a big difference if I was to get one of those 2 Victas blades (more so asking about VKMO as I look to be active on FH) to justify getting it sooner rather than later (or perhaps not at all)?
5. I am playing OX as I read (I believe on here) to start with OX to ease yourself into it before getting sponge, does this still stand? and if so at what point do you look to get sponge?

If you want to see me in action can check my youtube at https://www.youtube.com/user/ndragon88 I just posted a little FH action and I also have a couple of older videos before I stopped playing (they are one of the first uploads if you want to scroll down).

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 08:53 
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Blade: VKM
FH: Stiga Mantra S
BH: Dtecs OX
oh I forgot to ask (might be a silly question) why is the VKMO put as DEF but I've read its actually fast like OFF.
Same for the Joo blade. If they are rated OFF then what is the difference between that and Clipper?

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 11:07 
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Blade: VKMO
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BH: TSP SSPC2 Black 1.9mm
Ndragon wrote:
oh I forgot to ask (might be a silly question) why is the VKMO put as DEF but I've read its actually fast like OFF.
Same for the Joo blade. If they are rated OFF then what is the difference between that and Clipper?

Because even though they are blades for chopping/defending, they are quite hard and stiff, resulting in the OFF rating. Between them and Clipper, I have no idea, because I have never tried the Clipper. However, I'm fairly sure that they're both going to be harder, faster, and stiffer than the Stiga All Classic.

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 22:05 
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BH: 388d ox
I think Clipper has been used by some pros with Dornenglanz ox,not sure I'd be able to control that

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 23:03 
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Blade: Joola CWX
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I am now testing the DHS PG-7 blade with pips and it should be similar with Clipper. It plays fine with pips like Dtecs and Dornenglanz ox. Speed is right.


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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 23:13 
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Blade: VKM
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BH: Dtecs OX
sorry these might also be silly questions but what is it about those DEF blades like VKM and VKMO and Joo that make them so so popular among choppers and modern defenders. Is it the head size? Increased sweet spot?

Also wondering if I need to be looking at using sponge for mid distance chopping? or is that not really needed?

Could anyone give me a rough comparison between 388D, FL3, Dtecs and PR1? Mostly wondering how they all fair with a typical chopper/modern defender game, not looking at awkward at the table shots or drives n stuff.

My friend has VKM with FL3 1mm and when I gave it a go it felt so nice and easy to chop with but I really don't know if its the pips or the blade. He is lending me it for this weekend though so I can at least give it a proper go

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 23:24 
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My responses below in red....

Ndragon wrote:
1. First off I just want to understand with the Victas blades VKM and VKMO, how fast or bouncy are these both compared to the Stiga ALL classic and Clipper?
The VKM is slower and more dampening and far more flexy than the clipper, but I wouldn't call it "slow"..more ALL, similar to the Stiga ALL Classic but larger head and more dampening on blocks and chops. The VKMO is about the same speed as the Clipper, but more flexy and more dampening on passive shots. The Clipper is stiffer.

2. Clipper with long pips? Anyone tried or plays or know anyone that plays with it? Wondering how it is and if it can work well.
I have been meaning to try LPs on the clipper because Gustaf Ericson does as a chopper, but have never had the chance to glue them on. He uses them well, blocks passively in the short game, but then chops for the rest. He uses dornenglanz OX, I'll post a video below...

3. I am using Dawei 388D but have Dtecs on the way (any advice/tips/experiences with these would be much appreciated). Also shedding some light on Curl PR1.
Dtecs is essentially the opposite of P-1R. Dtecs topsheet is slippery, while P-1R is grippy. If I had to compare, I'd say 388D is in-between the 2, but leans more toward Dtecs. Dtecs widely considered by many to be the best blocking LP (but many choppers use it in sponge). P-1R is widely considered the best chopping LP (rarely do people use this for pushblocking). 388D is used by both, OX for blockers and Sponged for choppers. Sponged Dtecs is a bit bouncy and fast...be warned. P-1R to me is slow (Some think it's fast, I think because of the grip).

4. Is it gonna make a big difference if I was to get one of those 2 Victas blades (more so asking about VKMO as I look to be active on FH) to justify getting it sooner rather than later (or perhaps not at all)?
I would start with the VKM, not the offensive. Just better control, especially at the beginning. The VKMO is a great blade if you are going to loop a lot on the FH, but I don't feel like the benefits outweigh the control of the VKM, and the forehand on the VKM is plenty fast.

5. I am playing OX as I read (I believe on here) to start with OX to ease yourself into it before getting sponge, does this still stand? and if so at what point do you look to get sponge?
I think OX is easier in some ways, and far harder in others. It's easier for serve return, but far harder for chopping consistently. It just depends on what your deficits are...if you find spin to be harder to deal with, than OX is less grippy and therefore "easier." If you find pace to be more difficult, than sponge is more dampening on chops and therefore "easier."
OX is not necessarily "easier" than sponged. It depends on the user and the opponent.. I actually find OX to be more difficult generally speaking but against spinny players above 1900, I tend to start thinking the grippy sponged pips are more difficult to use. Nothing a little training can't help!


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Last edited by Japsican on 19 Jan 2018, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 23:38 
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Blade: Gionnis carb def
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BH: Talon
I’ve had the clipper clone from hrt. So take what I say with a grain of salt. I felt the clipper was a touch too fast. A little hard to control. Like dazzler said that plus DG would be crazy (I couldn’t do it). Then again DG alone is too much for me.
If you like a small head with an all+ blade, all wood I would recommend Sauer and Troger Fire starter blade.

I like right now giant Dragon Talon. It like d.tecs, but (for me) plays easier and you can be more offensive. I also like spinlord agenda. It’s a pretty nice all around rubber (chops, blocks, attack’s nicely)

If you’re blocking ox is the way to go.

Curl p1r is a chopping rubber. I’ve never tried it. In fact i’ve heard 388D is a chopping rubber. 388D-1 is a good rubber. That’s all I know.

Maybe I missed it. But what type of game are you trying to play? Just blocking i’m Guessing.

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 23:47 
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Ehimle wrote:
Maybe I missed it. But what type of game are you trying to play? Just blocking i’m Guessing.

He's chopping...

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 23:50 
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Here is Gustaf Ericson chopping with Dornenglanz OX on a Clipper. He has great touch and a very offensive game. There are plenty of videos of him on youtube btw.



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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 00:04 
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Ndragon wrote:
oh I forgot to ask (might be a silly question) why is the VKMO put as DEF but I've read its actually fast like OFF.
Same for the Joo blade. If they are rated OFF then what is the difference between that and Clipper?
The association between play philosophy and blade speed is not that simple. :)

Remember that Chopper generally plays further from the table, so, less risk of overshooting the table, and,

Chopper, in higher level, actually need that extra speed to return the ball faster. Chopping mainly done perpendicular to incoming ball, means, unlike drive, faster chop not equal faster return. Furthermore,

Those fast blades enable Joo to hit that monstrous counter loop! Definitely not far from Wang Hao level, and more powerful than Ma Long. :)



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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 00:45 
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Blade: VKM
FH: Stiga Mantra S
BH: Dtecs OX
Japsican wrote:
My responses below in red....

Ndragon wrote:
1. First off I just want to understand with the Victas blades VKM and VKMO, how fast or bouncy are these both compared to the Stiga ALL classic and Clipper?
The VKM is slower and more dampening and far more flexy than the clipper, but I wouldn't call it "slow"..more ALL, similar to the Stiga ALL Classic but larger head and more dampening on blocks and chops. The VKMO is about the same speed as the Clipper, but more flexy and more dampening on passive shots. The Clipper is stiffer.

2. Clipper with long pips? Anyone tried or plays or know anyone that plays with it? Wondering how it is and if it can work well.
I have been meaning to try LPs on the clipper because Gustaf Ericson does as a chopper, but have never had the chance to glue them on. He uses them well, blocks passively in the short game, but then chops for the rest. He uses dornenglanz OX, I'll post a video below...

3. I am using Dawei 388D but have Dtecs on the way (any advice/tips/experiences with these would be much appreciated). Also shedding some light on Curl PR1.
Dtecs is essentially the opposite of P-1R. Dtecs topsheet is slippery, while P-1R is grippy. If I had to compare, I'd say 388D is in-between the 2, but leans more toward Dtecs. Dtecs widely considered by many to be the best blocking LP (but many choppers use it in sponge). P-1R is widely considered the best chopping LP (rarely do people use this for pushblocking). 388D is used by both, OX for blockers and Sponged for choppers. Sponged Dtecs is a bit bouncy and fast...be warned. P-1R to me is slow (Some think it's fast, I think because of the grip).

4. Is it gonna make a big difference if I was to get one of those 2 Victas blades (more so asking about VKMO as I look to be active on FH) to justify getting it sooner rather than later (or perhaps not at all)?
I would start with the VKM, not the offensive. Just better control, especially at the beginning. The VKMO is a great blade if you are going to loop a lot on the FH, but I don't feel like the benefits outweigh the control of the VKM, and the forehand on the VKM is plenty fast.

5. I am playing OX as I read (I believe on here) to start with OX to ease yourself into it before getting sponge, does this still stand? and if so at what point do you look to get sponge?
I think OX is easier in some ways, and far harder in others. It's easier for serve return, but far harder for chopping consistently. It just depends on what your deficits are...if you find spin to be harder to deal with, than OX is less grippy and therefore "easier." If you find pace to be more difficult, than sponge is more dampening on chops and therefore "easier."
OX is not necessarily "easier" than sponged. It depends on the user and the opponent.. I actually find OX to be more difficult generally speaking but against spinny players above 1900, I tend to start thinking the grippy sponged pips are more difficult to use. Nothing a little training can't help!



Dude...this reply :up: thank you so much. It seems I may have made a mistake buying the Dtecs as I have no plan to block at the table unless I have to....but i haven't tried them yet so hopefully I can get on with them, although they are in OX so probably not. If it does turn out terrible for chopping for me then I could always keep them to use against certain players who don't give strong fast loops that made me drop back, hmmm.
How would you compare these 3 pips to FL3? if they all had around 1mm sponge?

I'll just stick with my Stiga ALL classic for now then and if ever will probably get the VKM

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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 00:48 
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Blade: VKM
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Ehimle wrote:
I’ve had the clipper clone from hrt. So take what I say with a grain of salt. I felt the clipper was a touch too fast. A little hard to control. Like dazzler said that plus DG would be crazy (I couldn’t do it). Then again DG alone is too much for me.
If you like a small head with an all+ blade, all wood I would recommend Sauer and Troger Fire starter blade.

I like right now giant Dragon Talon. It like d.tecs, but (for me) plays easier and you can be more offensive. I also like spinlord agenda. It’s a pretty nice all around rubber (chops, blocks, attack’s nicely)

If you’re blocking ox is the way to go.

Curl p1r is a chopping rubber. I’ve never tried it. In fact i’ve heard 388D is a chopping rubber. 388D-1 is a good rubber. That’s all I know.

Maybe I missed it. But what type of game are you trying to play? Just blocking i’m Guessing.


Not blocking. Chopper/modern defence. Maybe I gave wrong impression because I got OX and also got Dtecs, I didn't do too much research before getting them just someone at my club recommended and was on sale at TT11.

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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 01:03 
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Blade: Defplay/Stiga All Carbon
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BH: Super FX Large Pore/T05
Ndragon wrote:
Dude...this reply :up: thank you so much. It seems I may have made a mistake buying the Dtecs as I have no plan to block at the table unless I have to....but i haven't tried them yet so hopefully I can get on with them, although they are in OX so probably not. If it does turn out terrible for chopping for me then I could always keep them to use against certain players who don't give strong fast loops that made me drop back, hmmm.
How would you compare these 3 pips to FL3? if they all had around 1mm sponge?

I'll just stick with my Stiga ALL classic for now then and if ever will probably get the VKM

My pleasure.

Let me further qualify my response by saying, anything can be used to chop with and anything can be used to chop block with. But yes, IMO yes, Dtecs in OX is not optimal for a chopping-only game. There are however, several high level players that use Dtecs...but only with sponge (and even some pros Joo used to use them, Ma Te uses them).

FL3 is the grippiest and slowest of all chopping pips, with the exception of maybe TSP P-4. I think it's grippier than P-4, but some disagree. Either way, they are close.

If you struggle with pace, they will seem more controlled. If you struggle with spin, they will seem too grippy. I really LOVED them vs. players who flat hit or do not add spin, I hated FL3 against very spinny loopers, especially who have lower pace pulling you toward the table. There are techniques and answers for all of these things, but I wasn't willing to deal with them....haha. :P

There is nothing wrong with the Stiga All Classic and if you don't do much chopping on the forehand it's totally viable. There is an OX chopper in Sweden that Def-Attack (A member here) plays against occasionally, who uses RITC 755 in OX with that blade. Maybe I can find a video of him too...I know he has one.

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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 01:16 
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Also something to consider...if you are beginning and lower level...most of your opponents will not be confident enough to loop your chops consistently. So they inadvertently will push a lot, and draw you into an at-the-table game of push-blocking and pushing, whether you want it or not. So, an OX pip can work (I use DG OX myself), for those people. I also use P-1R in 0.5 mm sponge. You can chop and push block with both of those. Here's a good suggestion, try a thin-sponged Giant Dragon Meteorite. It's sort of between P-1R and DG, and we have a guy in our club that is a chopper when away from the table, and a pushblocker/chop blocker/attacker with the LPs when he's close to the table. He's around 2000 and has been as high as 2100. Very difficult to play.

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