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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2019, 05:13 
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redspot wrote:
redspot wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Redspot, the Grubba blade was a great suggestion. I like it a lot and the results have been very good. The feel on the pip side is terrific. The forehand side is excellent control and fast enough. Overall performance is fantastic. Chop blocks working great. Lift shots working great. Getting some really good wins in practice games. Probably added an instant 100 points to my level, so thank you very much! This is why we test. Now I have to get another Grubba and try some different, more disruptive long pips to see what happens. :oops:

I am so glad that you enjoy this very good blade and rubber combination which is so suitable for our style of play. a thin sponge (1mm) supports very good feel and control of the ball. I wish you best of luck with your new weapon :cash: :cash: :cash:

I am sorry for a not clear description. I mean an impact of a thin sponge of forehand rubber


1mm sponge is too slow for good offensive forehand game. Don't you think?


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2019, 05:31 
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Vadim wrote:
1mm sponge is too slow for good offensive forehand game. Don't you think?

It is too slow if you and the opponent drop back off the table. But if you block short with the pips and keep the opponent close, you can often slap it past them. Also the 1mm will bottom out on a flat hit giving a nasty ball for the opponent to deal with.

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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2019, 06:12 
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Modern Chiseler.
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
That's incredible. It's not like I'm hammering/smashing the ball with my LP ... though, of course, sometimes my opponent smashes or does a hard drive at it. There are some LPs where I've also not lost pips (some of the ones that come most readily to mind are GD Snowflake, GD Talon, Dr. N Desperado 2 and Xiom Guillotine back when that was around come most readily to mind), and there are other LPs where pips would fall out pretty readily (Joola Badman Reloaded, Dr. N. Viper, Dr. N Troublemaker and Spinlord Dornenglanz are all in this category). So there's clearly a difference in how susceptible LPs are to pips falling out, but I'm still wondering how you've managed to go all these years w/o ever losing a pip. Do you ever need to change your pips rubber at all, then?

I've never needed to change pips due to breakage. I change either because there's something new I want to try or the people at the club get too used to the pips I'm using and I want to change it up. I've experimented with a lot of different pips for shorter periods, but I've used sheets of Super Block, CK531A, Grass Dtecs, Bomb Talent and 388D-1 for six months to a year or more with no breakage. I had the notorious Dornenglanz on a hard carbon blade for a few months with no problems. I might try DG again in fact since it's supposed to be good against the plastic ball.

I know players who break pips, and in my opinion I think they abuse the pips and attack really hard at every underspin. Haggisv talks about "digging into the pips." I don't think I do that either. I'm pretty good at keeping the pace of the game slow and over the table. Back in the day, I could get enough points to win by living off spin-reversal. Now it's more spin variation and placement, effective serve/return, and having a decent forehand finisher.

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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2019, 06:32 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
TraditionalTradesman wrote:
That's incredible. It's not like I'm hammering/smashing the ball with my LP ... though, of course, sometimes my opponent smashes or does a hard drive at it. There are some LPs where I've also not lost pips (some of the ones that come most readily to mind are GD Snowflake, GD Talon, Dr. N Desperado 2 and Xiom Guillotine back when that was around come most readily to mind), and there are other LPs where pips would fall out pretty readily (Joola Badman Reloaded, Dr. N. Viper, Dr. N Troublemaker and Spinlord Dornenglanz are all in this category). So there's clearly a difference in how susceptible LPs are to pips falling out, but I'm still wondering how you've managed to go all these years w/o ever losing a pip. Do you ever need to change your pips rubber at all, then?

I've never needed to change pips due to breakage. I change either because there's something new I want to try or the people at the club get too used to the pips I'm using and I want to change it up. I've experimented with a lot of different pips for shorter periods, but I've used sheets of Super Block, CK531A, Grass Dtecs, Bomb Talent and 388D-1 for six months to a year or more with no breakage. I had the notorious Dornenglanz on a hard carbon blade for a few months with no problems. I might try DG again in fact since it's supposed to be good against the plastic ball.

I know players who break pips, and in my opinion I think they abuse the pips and attack really hard at every underspin. Haggisv talks about "digging into the pips." I don't think I do that either. I'm pretty good at keeping the pace of the game slow and over the table. Back in the day, I could get enough points to win by living off spin-reversal. Now it's more spin variation and placement, effective serve/return, and having a decent forehand finisher.


I agree with this. I have used many long pimples over the past 30 years and never had any missing pips.
I only change pimples when I wish to try something new or my club mates get used to them and can play easily against me. Some of my club mates are now using Troublemaker because they see how effective it is.


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2019, 08:07 
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I'll agree here - I rarely break pips, I have done in the past but that's wear and tear over time, they don't "break off" - its a slow progress!

But also along the same lines of jmkeynes - Clubmates have seen my success and enjoyment with this rubber, and have started buying it. It's infectious, as these guys who try it are then loving it too - I'm thinking this is one of the best things Dr N has come out with in many, many years.

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PostPosted: 07 Jul 2019, 10:45 
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charmander defender wrote:
As far as I understood you are enquiring about suitability and more benefits for a push blocking style out of using TM on offensive blade. I would say: No.

It seems you suggest the only way to find out about the perfect set up is to spend a lot of money on different blades or rubbers . Well, what's the point of this forum then? ...

Thanks to the contributions of hundreds of users people have been able to more easily find rubbers / blades that suit their style . Yes, I agree some money has to be spent but if it weren't for this forum, many people would be at a loss .

There are many users with the same style, hence, their observations do guide others who start in the game or just want to keep finding the set up that yields the best results . We, as long pimple lovers , are very limited by the curent regulations,..... Using treated pips is a temptation, yes,... but it reveals what one truly is,.....unless you are a professional player who lives on tt, treated pips is just a way to fool yourself and make illegal sites richer ,....

I do believe we can find an off / off + blade to optimize TM in the chopblocking department, ... Tm is very slow, the increased speed will make the opponent lose timing, or make more mistakes ,..


I bet for Innerforce Layer ZLF Blade


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2019, 04:47 
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ozyman wrote:
charmander defender wrote:
As far as I understood you are enquiring about suitability and more benefits for a push blocking style out of using TM on offensive blade. I would say: No.

It seems you suggest the only way to find out about the perfect set up is to spend a lot of money on different blades or rubbers . Well, what's the point of this forum then? ...

Thanks to the contributions of hundreds of users people have been able to more easily find rubbers / blades that suit their style . Yes, I agree some money has to be spent but if it weren't for this forum, many people would be at a loss .

There are many users with the same style, hence, their observations do guide others who start in the game or just want to keep finding the set up that yields the best results . We, as long pimple lovers , are very limited by the curent regulations,..... Using treated pips is a temptation, yes,... but it reveals what one truly is,.....unless you are a professional player who lives on tt, treated pips is just a way to fool yourself and make illegal sites richer ,....

I do believe we can find an off / off + blade to optimize TM in the chopblocking department, ... Tm is very slow, the increased speed will make the opponent lose timing, or make more mistakes ,..


I bet for Innerforce Layer ZLF Blade


....you may be right because the Innerforce Layer ZLF Blade has some flex and it is about medium hard ... however, we may find a similar effect with cheaper blades..... I feel another cheap , good blade for TM could be Thibar Samsonov Premium Contact ......

A friend of mine has been using it with his pips and it worked all right,,..... in the coming weeks I will get hold of it and post the results ,.....for Tm an DG,..... Thibar S P Contact should not cost more than 35 € . :lol:


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 01:26 
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I have had TM 3,5 months now and I have recently lost 2 pips. :( I have played 2 times a week or less.


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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2019, 01:45 
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Me too. 2 months and lost 4 pips. :( I think because TM so soft in OX makes fragile and lose pips faster.


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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2019, 21:28 
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Wow!! it means Tm beats DG as the worst rubber as far as durabilty goes .In my case, DG lasted about 8 months when the first pip fell off ,... and not in the centre , near the upper edge . .... it still has one pip off though ,....

For me , Tm seems alright for the moment ,...as we have discussed earlier , your technique appears to have a lot to do ,.... if this is not the case , maybe you came across a faulty batch :?:


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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2019, 22:23 
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I've been using TM for a few months now, against some pretty hard loopers, and I haven't broken a pip yet.

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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2019, 23:01 
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dwruck wrote:
I've been using TM for a few months now, against some pretty hard loopers, and I haven't broken a pip yet.


I too have been playing with Troublemaker on a couple of blades for a few months. I have not lost any pips on either sheet of Troublemaker.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 02:00 
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Blade: Bfy Grubba/Tibhar S..P.C.
FH: Sandwind 1.5
BH: DG /TM OX / ABS 2 2.5
If you are ambitious in this sport , Tm can help you reach a decent level , yes,.... the same goes with DG ox , giant Dragon Talon National team ox , there may be other rubbers but in my experience , these are the best blocking rubbers ...., however , if you really want to compete at higher levels , by competing I mean beating a 2600-2800 rated player or just losing the game by a low margin ( 2-3 , last set 12-14 or similar ) ,... you have the following options ( because the chop blocking / pushing style with pips is REALLY dead at that high level )

Option 1.- Illegally modify the pips, hence, cheating

Option 2.-Play with frictionless anti .

Yes, another great tournament this past weekend, yes I did play against high level players ( this time I will not say the approximate rating according to USA ratings because some funny people here just use this excuse to throw negative energy around ) . I was really close to going to the 5th set against a great looper fh , bh ,.... Tm was succesful in some parts of the game but once this happens, this kind of very intelligent players have plan B, C etc ,....and in the crucial moments it is really difficult to return the service low and short when they use superfast blades and rubbers or ( in some cases) they boost the rubber .

Every tournament happens more or less the same with the pips play,...even some people I know ,who play really well with pips, get to the quarter finals at the most ( I got to the round of 16 this time ) .

Bottom line : either the regulations change for the pips play , you cheat by modifying pips or you follow the frictionless anti route. The rest is bla bla bla or the hype of a new pip ....... in every tournament I take part the same thing happens : the pip game reaches the quarter finals at the most .


Maybe in veteran only tournaments the story is different but in the overall category the double inverted players usually win, a mirror of the ITTF world tour


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 03:58 
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Congratulations on your results, they generally sound positive. You are right, against the "best of the best", long pips blocking and chop blocking is going to get absolutely destroyed. There are still some long pips choppers that can play at the highest levels, but you are right, because of the new balls it is more difficult than before.
I think most of us here are "average" players, which is why we talk about the close to the table pips style. We are not trying to compete at the elite levels of the sport (for the most part), but just looking to get to that next level and have fun. I used to be in the USATT 1900 and above range consistently for a couple of years, but then it started slipping a bit. I probably could have stayed in the 1700-1800 range without messing around with my equipment, But I decided to try some other things before I ended up on the Trouble Maker OX. At my age (almost 49), skill level and only able to play 1-2 times per week. using this style and talking about it is very useful.
Charmaine, maybe you over estimated the general level of players here. Yes, there are a number of players that are above 2000 USATT or equivalent. Even at that level, if you are really good, you can be competitive with long pips.
Anyway, just my perspective on why Trouble Maker and other traditional long pips are exciting to talk about here. There are a lot of players with great experience using long pips and I still continue to learn so much.
I tried ABS2 and didn't like it one bit. Maybe I'll have to eventually try the DMS antis. But for now I'll probably stick with the TM, try to get back to my previous level and hope to get over 2000 someday.

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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 04:45 
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dwruck wrote:
Congratulations on your results, they generally sound positive. You are right, against the "best of the best", long pips blocking and chop blocking is going to get absolutely destroyed. There are still some long pips choppers that can play at the highest levels, but you are right, because of the new balls it is more difficult than before.
I think most of us here are "average" players, which is why we talk about the close to the table pips style. We are not trying to compete at the elite levels of the sport (for the most part), but just looking to get to that next level and have fun. I used to be in the USATT 1900 and above range consistently for a couple of years, but then it started slipping a bit. I probably could have stayed in the 1700-1800 range without messing around with my equipment, But I decided to try some other things before I ended up on the Trouble Maker OX. At my age (almost 49), skill level and only able to play 1-2 times per week. using this style and talking about it is very useful.
Charmaine, maybe you over estimated the general level of players here. Yes, there are a number of players that are above 2000 USATT or equivalent. Even at that level, if you are really good, you can be competitive with long pips.
Anyway, just my perspective on why Trouble Maker and other traditional long pips are exciting to talk about here. There are a lot of players with great experience using long pips and I still continue to learn so much.
I tried ABS2 and didn't like it one bit. Maybe I'll have to eventually try the DMS antis. But for now I'll probably stick with the TM, try to get back to my previous level and hope to get over 2000 someday.


Dwruck,Thank you for your kind words. I prefer to overstimate the general level of the players than understimate it . :) . I would just like to comment that if anyone here is ambitious , the route to follow is clear : cheat or go the Flanti way .The close to the table pip play has been already dead for 11 years now . When I say dead, I mean dead to compete at higher levels, ... for those who are just being content with a low ranking or just play recreationally, ok,..., then, the close to the table pip play is just a reasonble way to get a decent level,....

I consider myself ambitious and have been able to put pressure on very high skilled players , 2 divisions above mine .... but if I want to upgrade I must evolve like the Pokémons . :lol:


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