OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi to all if you have a free time check out our little friction test I will hope you enjoy

https://youtu.be/_HAXUx1NP44

Italia is where you may be denied of admission to the playing area because of a trashy rubber you brought in.

https://www.sinthesieng.it/en/areas/si- ... at-tester/



http://0s.or2ha3dbnzsxiltjoq.nblz.ru/it ... ester.html
120 -00. . .

Woow, very nice machine to do some tests

Italy is making up their own rules..
There is a REGULATION for manufactorers of rubbers that a NEW pips out rubber must have a minimum friction.
However, there is no RULE on the book that an untreated rubber must MAINTAIN a certain amount of friction.
Italy added a rule for their country only, but there is no such rule elsewhere.

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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus with DHS G888 1.8 mm and Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX National Team

I think that for the test to be more informative they should have done Dr N’s Super Block and compare everything else to that

Yes, in point we also do this wiht dr. Neubauer inferno, frictionless , old version

I’m still trying to figure out what LP has the lowest legal friction. Given the fact the LPs are naturally losing friction over time, it would make sense to buy such a rubber and stick with it until it becomes as close to frictionless as possible. So, thanks for doing this!

All rubbers have been playing for a long time, and the most frictionless in time I think is yasaka phantoom

The way this conversation has gone is why I hate people trying to get into the grey parts of the rules.

Before you "nearly frictionless pimples" crowd get too hot under the collar, I also hate the booster using crowd who excuse using boosters on the basis that manufacturers are allowed to sell new rubber boosted, so they are merely returning (retuning?) their rubber to something like as new condition.

Once the minutes for the 2019 AGM & BoD meetings are out and the Laws of Table Tennis and Regulations for International Competitions are updated, I am going to go through my national TT association to:

1) Either have the minimum friction rule applied to all rubber, not just pimples out, and with enforcement, or have no minimum friction rule for any rubber;

2) Either ban totally the use of boosters by manufacturers as well as players, or allow boosting by players as well as manufacturers as long as flatness & thickness & VOC requirements are still met.

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Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

I’m really not sure why you’re getting so worked up about it! I’m not using an illegal rubber. I stated I’m using a perfectly legal Spinlord Blitzschlag and I don’t intend to do ANYTHING with it. However, when it gets older it will probably lose friction, exactly the way the Chinese tacky rubbers lose their tack or Tenergy gets less spinny. If you’d like to make this all illegal, we should all probably switch to hardbats and be done with it. Yes, I believe the decision to outlaw frictionless was completely political and asinine, but it’s neither here nor there. In a matter of fact, I believe that playing frictionless with the new ball (another asinine political decision) puts you at disadvantage. The real question I have if there is any other sport where stupid asinine decisions are being shoved down our throats with such regularity? It’s turning the sport into a joke. Just my opinion...

As was my post my opinion, but instead of trying to dwell at the fringes of illegality I am planning on attempting to do something about it other than exploit them.

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Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

Varenberg Brothers' laboratory studies on the pimpled rubbers. 2012.

TRIBOLOGY is a science on friction as general.
Definition of tribology: a study that deals with the design, friction, wear, and lubrication of interacting surfaces in relative motion (as is table tennis ball and rubber sheet under shearing force).



Those two scholars of Israely University, Varenberg brothers. They did a lot of studies on standard pimpled rubbers.
They could provide us with more friction data, as soon as they have got rubber samples (a sheet cut/ uncut or some fractions of rubber sheet).

Or rather, it's probably Igor making up rules on the behalf of Italy.. Who knows what's being enforced there and at what tournaments, Igor CLAIMS this machine is in widespread use. The link is simply to a page where they're selling the things. Because it's made in Italy, then it MUST BE IN WIDESPREAD USE in Italy, so he thinks. There must be one of these gadgets on each umpire's table at every itty bitty tournament and league night up and down the country in Italy... Note that the second link in Igor's post - it goes to a website in RUSSIA - and it's a fly-by-night website that triggers Trojan warnings. Don't click on it.

Iskandar

0:48 - I was thinking "what a horrible glue job". And then I realized, apart from the first rubber, the rest weren't even glued on...

I suppose it's a rough test, but they could have measured the angle at which the sliding took place. The fact that the rubbers weren't glued on makes the test even more inaccurate than it already was, since irregularities in the surface of the rubber can hold up the three balls. I'd have laughed my head off if the rubber had slid off the bat before the balls started to slide.

Iskandar

This is a pretty sticky issue since it's fairly hard to test for both frictionlessness and for boosters. It's even tricky if you want to allow everything. Which is why the rules seem to be frozen at the moment, there doesn't seem to be any sort of easy way forward. There isn't a rule that specifically bans user-applied booster - there IS a rule that forbids alteration of rubber once it's left the factory. If you get rid of this rule, then not only do you allow (non-VOC) boosters, you also allow people to rub epoxy on the tips of their long pips. (Which apparently is how Neubauer got started.) Which is fine if you don't have a problem with that. But if you want to allow boosters and not epoxying pip tips, then you'd have to introduce and/or massively rewrite one or more rules.

The booster situation I find rather amusing. By all accounts, a lot of the top players (i.e. pretty much everyone in the top 500 who use H3) use booster. You can't really do anything about it because there is no test for it, and if you came up with one you'd have to differentiate between boosters that are available to the public and the chemicals factories apply to the rubbers. If you want to ban the use of chemicals in the factory that give the boost effect (also a big issue - what chemicals produce the boost and which don't?), then you'd have to take Tenergy and all Tensors off the market. You'd be left with the likes of Sriver and Mendo, and non-tuned Chinese rubbers like H3 and 729.

This is the reason why I think there hasn't been any movement on the rules despite the public hand-wringing over "bat doping" (and the more histrionic reactions for folk like Igor ).. it's a more complicated issue than it first appears to be.

Iskandar