OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I tend to be more of a mid-distance chopper with my LP rubber, so I tend chop most serves back.

However against top players, this is often not enough, since it usually allows them to attack first, which is often not what you want.

As it's been pointed out to me by several players, I need to attack more to give them less time to react, and draw more mistakes. Now by attack I mean either hit/flick the ball, or an fast active block.

So I'd like to hear some view on how people return serves, with questions like:
- do you attack all balls
- any balls you never attack
- do you try and generate some spin with the LP

Now I know it's all about mixing it up, and a lot depends on the rubber you use as well, but I'm hoping for some feedback that can help me improve my return of serves.

Cheers!

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It really depends on who your playing with and what your comfortable with. You said that you tend to be a mid distance chopper. So I assume that placing your chop returns of serves correctly will setup your chopping and countering game.

For my style, returning serves with the long pips is the key factor as to what Ill do next. It also depends on the player. If im playing a average or same level player, Its pretty much unlimited as to what I can do... I also know that If I chop a serve back slightly high, Ill most likely be able to retreat and chop the oncoming attack. Generally its not a good habit to just chop all serves regardless of the spin.

At my current level I see 4 ways to return serves - chop, aggressive push, scoop/lift.. thats sidespin included and lastly the pick hit.

If the player im playing tends to serve short or medium short with sideback or sidetop.. I tend to chop the return or scoop it sideways to add variation..... If you find it hard to picture what the sidespin scoop looks like. Just watch a video clip of Austria's Chen Weixing. He does it with great effect and consistency.

lately Ive been practicing to be very aggressive on my LP's return of serves. If Im forced to push or chop the return, I will do it very aggressively and as fast as I can. Aggressive pushes off backspin are very effective as they make it very hard for the player to attack strongly as they have no time to react to that fast floater I've just thrown at them.

Hitting serves is a completely different story. Its nowhere near impossible and can be done regardless of what spin the serve is ...the biggest problem there is in the mind. If you have the confidence and mindset...go for it....Ive seen deng yaping..a long pips attacker in the early 90's totally demoralize her opponents.

well its getting late and Im going off track

Well haggisv what im trying to get at. If you normally a chopper, try playing a few matches as a lp blocker, or even a close to the table attacker. Just play out of your comfortzone once in awhile

It is not so easy to explain, there are a lot of possibilities.

Try to block with the LP is probably the best solution against fast serve.

You can also try to turn the racket and use the inverted rubber, you need to be very confident to do it but is it works, your oppenent will think twice before to do this.

But you can also use the PL and to vary the effect you give. I only play once with the 955 but it is possible to make a chop with very few effect and one with a lot of effect, quite disturbing fo the opponent.

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Blade : Tibhar COS3
Forehand: Moon Pro 2.0
Backhand: Neubauer Desperado Ox
****
http://www.diabolosyl.net (my own site)
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Thanks for the tips guys!

LawOCG: Yes I do feel I know those returns, but as you mentioned they are a little outside my comfort zone. I've have been practicing exactly what you mentioned, trying to attack everything just for the sake of practice. The results are encouragin since I beat players I normally struggle with, but have trouble with some other. This obviously means if I adjust according to the player, it should improve my game.

One of the hardest ones to attack is the slower floaters, as they require you to generate some spin with the LP to lift them over, timing is critical. The deep and fast floaters are hard too, but I'm getting better just blocking those.

The beauty of the 955 is that you can create considrable spin, the most of any of the LPs I have tried. I'm not sure what that is, since the pips are not the softest, and the sponge not softest.

I'll keep practicing playing all aggressive...

Diabolosyl: Yes I agree blocking works well and gives them less time to react. Swapping over the bat is an option, but is something that will require a lot more practice as to not confuse myself afterwards. My BH can be quite strong, as I used to be a looper with inverted, but I struggle with the inverted rubber a little on the BH, it's a little too fast.

Yes I agree you can create a lot of different chops, some heavy, some not, with only slight adjustments of the bat. This is something I do already.

Cheers guys, good discussion!

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Well one of the hardest serves I find to return is also the floaters. If they throw a short and dead ball its extremely hard to chop the ball nicely without being blasted away. the best option for this is to get the timing spot on and scoop it to the corners or their elbow.

As for the fast floater......I cant say much as Im having problems with it too. I normally block it very low and place the ball but there isnt much spin on the ball. As of lately Ive been able to hit these balls . If i know theres a fast serve coming at me, I can hit it off the bounce with the LP. Its pretty consistent but the ball wont have backspin so its just like a regular block towards the other player.

As for twiddling, you have to be confident. When your training remember to practice all the BH shots with the normal rubber. Almost as If your a attacker. Trust me this helps heaps. If your able to attack with both sides on the bh, like Diablosyl said....they'll think twice before they serve.

I would normally chop the short and dead balls, but with a fast and sideway action. This seems to offer me more control, but alos troubles my opponents more. To attack them seems a lower percentage shot, you need to dig the ball a little into the rubber to get some grip, and them hit/flick it over. The grippy long pimple rubbers really help here.

Yes I tend to block back the fast floaters if I can, chopping can be alittle hard to control, certainly hard to keep it short and low.

To twiddle I think i really need more practice session, since for the amount I practice at the moment, it's causing me more problems than my opponent

I really should practice this against the ball machine, twiddle between every return...

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

this is slightly off topic of serve returns.

Well I managed to get a few hours of play today. I was playing a pretty smart looper. He would always loop no more then 2 loops before placing the next ball short.

This is where the trouble is. Im having problems returning the drop shot he has just done. Normally I would chop it back with the LP but I find that this is ineffective as he just reloops and it all starts again. I cant really attack that ball as well unless my heart is in it 100%. So there's the problem.

what suggestions do you guys have? normally I tend to aggressively push that dropshot to either corner to setup my next attack. But against him that wasnt effective.

Id like to hear how you long pippers out there battle this

There is something to try but not so easy to do: that what I called "the piston" : racket at the begin at 90° of the table (a beautiful right angle), close to you then just go forward without changing this inclinaison. To be honnest, it is not allways 90°, it depends on the LP and the blade. The most difficult is to find the right speed to do it.
The biggest avantage, you gives a ball wobbling but with his effect and the ball goes also faster below the table.

_________________
Blade : Tibhar COS3
Forehand: Moon Pro 2.0
Backhand: Neubauer Desperado Ox
****
http://www.diabolosyl.net (my own site)
http://www.tennis-de-table.com (biggest forum in France)

If it's even got th slightest bit of backspin on it, I would hit/scoop it deep to his backhand, or wherever is his weakness, and wait for a weaker retrun that i can attack.

If it's got no spin or topspin, a chop with a very fast action can get a fair bit of backspin or sidespin with the LP that i use, so i would try that.

Which Lp are you using at the moment?

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Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Im using 1mm Neptune on a AllroundCR

Ive tried a few other shots lately. If theres backspin I can sidespin lift it fairly fast or I can chop it back very fast with light topspin.

if Its anything else. I can chop block counter hit or whatever I feel like

Well the neptune seemed very similar to the 955 to me, although a 1mm is quite a fair bit faster than the 0.6mm, especially in chopping away from the table. Your blade should be similar speed to mine (stiga energy wood), which should work very well for this rubber.

Against backspin I find it real easy to hit/scoop it back. If I chop it back and dig it into the rubber a little I get backspin. If I brush it only lightly I get some topspin. That's what I love about this rubber.

Brushing sideways works well against no-spin, a good way to still control it and keep it low.

With this LP rubber you can do just about anything, I have found no real weaknesses, apart from not as much spin reversal as other.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

yeah the 1mm is abit fast. I can chop pretty consistently, its just that when I crank up the arm acceleration the ball occasionally goes long. Other than that its a great rubber to use.

I just ordered a Energy Wood for myself as well....can you please post a mini review on it ? Ive owned a few allrounds and offensives. But never a energy wood.

Hows it speed, feel and weight? would it be inbetween the 2 mentioned above?

The energy wood is not all that fast, probably ALL+ to OFF- but is quite flexible and has a little extra mid-distance. It has excellent feel and dwell time. It's a real loopers blade. Early models were around 80g, lately they all seem to be around 90g.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Some very good points here. I'm developing attacking with pips on 2mm sponge starting on Leggy (Juic) or Hallmark Frustration.

Personally its not a problem I have because I can twiddle out of it, I can twiddle and loop/flick with inverted on more or less on any incoming server. With this scenario no spin serves are just great and can be really hit back hard. The problem with this is I get caught out with a floated backspin serve, I play with high throwing angle inverted (Geospin Tacky) so misjudging a spin is a disaster. The other issue with twiddling is the blade angle is not too precise: if you're looking to hit/ loop the ball in the last 6' of the table its usually safer to aim for the last 12- 18' on a twiddle (IMO).

Sidespinning with pips is very good against incoming topspin/ backspin and is a sort of attack when done hard enough. I also think dropping the ball just over the net is a good stroke - SuperBlock OX is a dream for this (or a nightmare depending on which side of the table you are standing).

I think the main point is that its a lot of work doing pips because you need a large kit bag of backhand shots.

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Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)
Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .

This is an interesting stroke, any chance you could elaborate please?

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Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)
Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .