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 Post subject: Pip structure
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2007, 20:54 
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I've had many people talk about the pip configuration/orientation, either vertical or horizontal. One is supposed to be more spinny, wheras the other is faster (can't remember which one).

Now I've checked out quite a few long pimple rubbers, some vertical some horizontal, and I'm not at all convinced that the orientation of the rows of pimples really makes a difference.

The pimples configuration seem pretty much symmetric to me, and which way you brush the ball and how it comes off sure depends much more on other factors than the pimple orienntation.

Any thoughts?

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Last edited by haggisv on 10 Jul 2008, 19:14, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2007, 02:27 
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I understand what is being said I think. If you look at the top of the pips they are not always exactly horizontal - is that what you mean?

If thats the case I suspect it will make a difference and perhaps an accentuation of this is causing the TSP Curl Combi to behave like soft/frictionless pips depending on which direction you play a stroke.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2007, 06:44 
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Mathias wrote:
I understand what is being said I think. If you look at the top of the pips they are not always exactly horizontal - is that what you mean?

If thats the case I suspect it will make a difference and perhaps an accentuation of this is causing the TSP Curl Combi to behave like soft/frictionless pips depending on which direction you play a stroke.


No no, what I meant was the direction of the rows of the pimples. There are 2 different ways the rows can run.

I would think not making the pip tips horizontal would not be legal either, since the surface would not be 'uniform'.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2007, 07:47 
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Oh I see, savvy. Hmm.... good question, very good question.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2007, 19:42 
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Ok I've seen it. All the lps I have are arranged horizontally, however Juic Leggy is arranged vertically. In addition the tops of the tips of Leggy are not uniform there is an 'imprint' on them. This rubber looks to be very novel.

More generally this has to affect the ball, but its a hard test to conduct because there are so many dis-simularities between pips this being just one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2007, 20:17 
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Hi!

Here are a few with different orientation, not sure which is classed as horizontal or vertical:

Pimples with horizontal rows:
955
837
C&F3
Dawei 388D-1

Pimples with vertical rows:
755 faster
Globe 979

What do you mean by an imprint? You mean just a rough/jagged surface? The more you tell me the more intrigued I am with this rubber...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2007, 21:42 
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Hey Haggisv:

Again if you've got the rubber on order you'll see what I mean and we can input into a review of it - most objective way forward IMO.

Ok thanks, I'll check out all my lps and add to the list. We can use C&F3 as the common standard here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2007, 07:00 
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Yep, sounds fair...I'll see what others I can add to the list...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2007, 09:14 
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I just had another thought...pics of all the pips are on the ITTF website, so we should be able to work out the pip arrangement of any pip from there...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2007, 09:28 
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Cool idea 8)

I got 755 showing the same pip structure as C&F3, you got 755 fast as being different .... ?? I mean by that the horizontal vertical thing, the size and spacing is completely different.

Anyway Leggy (defence) 2mm didn't work - the sponge is extremely soft and behaves like ... short pips? The ball goes straight into the pips, there's loads of tacky pips to wrap around so it just invert spins it out. The sponge might work on C&F3 - but even then.... Hmm.... it could work on Scalpel... now there's a thought - you see Scalpel has so little life in it but on ultra soft sponge ..... hmm...

Anyway I pulled the topsheet off and the pip that emerged was quite nice. I've yet to cut it and stick it (I've a new blade on order - I'll wait till then) but it should be better than Allegator OX. It could be a very good OX indeed. Its got more grip (smaller pips) - so better to attack with - and the tops are jagged/ 'treated' which should be good for reverse spinning. Hmm.... could be good.... if it is I might up Allegator to a bit of sponge.

If it turns out to be an excellent OX then I might not bother moving towards attacking pips. The thing that seemed to be true of Leggy was the slightest bit of sponge under it (1mm) turned it into a much too grippy LP. With a lot of soft sponge it was no good. The idea is therefore it could be a finely balanced OX.

The reason for all this is that I like to attack with topspin and hitting these days and the pips need to be a balance of grippy (otherwise the ball will skid off the blade) and hard to allow reverse spin. I do lose speed of course because I'm playing without sponge but you know if the shoe fits .... wear it!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2007, 13:15 
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Yep, I've got both 755 and 755 faster, and they are opposite in pip arrangement.

Yes I did expect 2mm to be too much, but I'm hoping 1mm is not too much to lose it's LP abilies. It might still be very good for chopping though, should be able to get heavy spin or no spin.

You've pulled the sponge off already! :shock:


Mathias wrote:
Cool idea 8)

I got 755 showing the same pip structure as C&F3, you got 755 fast as being different .... ?? I mean by that the horizontal vertical thing, the size and spacing is completely different.

Anyway Leggy (defence) 2mm didn't work - the sponge is extremely soft and behaves like ... short pips? The ball goes straight into the pips, there's loads of tacky pips to wrap around so it just invert spins it out. The sponge might work on C&F3 - but even then.... Hmm.... it could work on Scalpel... now there's a thought - you see Scalpel has so little life in it but on ultra soft sponge ..... hmm...

Anyway I pulled the topsheet off and the pip that emerged was quite nice. I've yet to cut it and stick it (I've a new blade on order - I'll wait till then) but it should be better than Allegator OX. It could be a very good OX indeed. Its got more grip (smaller pips) - so better to attack with - and the tops are jagged/ 'treated' which should be good for reverse spinning. Hmm.... could be good.... if it is I might up Allegator to a bit of sponge.

If it turns out to be an excellent OX then I might not bother moving towards attacking pips. The thing that seemed to be true of Leggy was the slightest bit of sponge under it (1mm) turned it into a much too grippy LP. With a lot of soft sponge it was no good. The idea is therefore it could be a finely balanced OX.

The reason for all this is that I like to attack with topspin and hitting these days and the pips need to be a balance of grippy (otherwise the ball will skid off the blade) and hard to allow reverse spin. I do lose speed of course because I'm playing without sponge but you know if the shoe fits .... wear it!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2007, 15:25 
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I can always reattach it later, but I didn't like the sponge at all and really I should have avoided the soft sponge IMO.

This is a pretty cool and lively forum BTW.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2007, 00:52 
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[quote="haggisv"]Yep, I've got both 755 and 755 faster, and they are opposite in pip arrangement.

I have no idea about it but don't think it's matter. No one, even pro, mentions it.


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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2007, 03:01 
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I think there is a difference according to the position of the pips, there is for example the Tony Hold Virus: in the marketing ads, they say you can use it into two positions : a fast and a slow one. No more comment on it and I never try it but this could be.
It would maybe also explain some strange movements on the video of Neubauer.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2007, 03:06 
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That last point is a very good point. I'll check this out myself - the issue is backhand swipe spin-wobbles.

I get a nice spin-wobble attacking topspin, but could never get a spin-wobble attacking backspin (no matter how much I brushed the ball), although Neubauer was convinced this could be done. Interesting we used the blade at 90 degrees to perform the same stroke (I swivel my writ into the shot). Easy to check.

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