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 Post subject: Re: Pip structure
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2010, 22:03 
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Catagorising the rubbers is a tough ask, but I'm very interested to hear your findings.

Another thing to to consider is that rubbers in OX seem to sometimes behave very differently compared to the sponged version... so a sponge LP suitable for a particular style or stroke, may not be suitable for this in OX, and vice versa. Of course the physical properties of the rubber remain the same, so that's very useful data!

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 Post subject: Re: Pip structure
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2010, 00:16 
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haggisv wrote:
Another thing to to consider is that rubbers in OX seem to sometimes behave very differently compared to the sponged version... so a sponge LP suitable for a particular style or stroke, may not be suitable for this in OX, and vice versa. Of course the physical properties of the rubber remain the same, so that's very useful data!


I'm using always thin spong because the spin reversal is much better at long distance then in OX. Disturbing effects with rubbers in OX are better at the table. On the other side I think OX doesn't change very much really. Rubbers in OX are normally more controlled to play but have less spin reversal and less options for dangerous and controlled attacks. Thin spong is normally good for much spin reversal and better attacking options.

OX is normally a decision for a controlled and stable play, thin spong is normally good for an variable allround play and thick spong is good for an attacking style.

For me the main difference between the long pips is the distance to the table. Some are designed for a style behind the table and other are suitable for a style at the table. Spong doesn't change the playing properties of a single covering. Spong change more the speed and risk of someones style. The surface grip of a rubber is responsible for handling the spin and the spong is responsible for handling the speed.

Cheers, Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Pip structure
PostPosted: 17 May 2011, 01:50 
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martinspin wrote:
I'm using always thin spong because the spin reversal is much better at long distance then in OX. Disturbing effects with rubbers in OX are better at the table. On the other side I think OX doesn't change very much really. Rubbers in OX are normally more controlled to play but have less spin reversal and less options for dangerous and controlled attacks. Thin spong is normally good for much spin reversal and better attacking options.

I'm not too sure about this. Anytime you add sponge, you increase the dwell time which means you will always have less spin reversal compared to OX. Distance away from the table won't matter. I also believe one has better control with the sponge because of the dwell and it behaves more predictably than bending pips.


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 Post subject: Re: Pip structure
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2011, 12:10 
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Can we have a rubbers with different pips structure on a same sheet. I don't recall any iTTF rule about that.

byluu


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 Post subject: Re: Pip structure
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2011, 19:36 
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byluu wrote:
Can we have a rubbers with different pips structure on a same sheet. I don't recall any iTTF rule about that.

byluu


From technical leaflet 4:

1.4.1. Pimples
All pimples should be equal. Each pimple must have a circular symmetry, with its axis
perpendicular to the plane of the base layer. At any height above the base it shall be no
wider than at any point closer to the base. This permits cylinders, cones (but not inverted
cones) and combinations thereof.
Pimples must be evenly spaced along three sets of parallel lines at 60 degrees to each other.
The surface of the pimple top must be parallel to the base of the sheet, but may be smooth
or roughened (up to 0.1 mm), though not to an extent that would constitute hollowness in the
pimple.
For pimples-in racket coverings some deviation from an ideal shape is acceptable, like
irregularities on the side of the pimple, or a “hat shape” on the pimple tops – when this is not
a general trend, but is found on individual pimples. For the pimples-out racket covering,
deviation from an ideal shape is not acceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Pip structure
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2013, 16:23 
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Nice. i enjoyed reading the discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Pip structure
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 13:53 
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OK, so the rows of pips are arranged in a hexagonal pattern, with rows 60 degrees to each other. There are apparently two ways to arrange these rows - you could have one row parallel to the base of the rubber sheet, the other two rows are at 60 degrees to the base row. Or you can have one row perpendicular to the base of the sheet (where the logo strip is), the other two rows are now at 30 degrees to the base of the sheet.

Don't know if this matters or not, but at one time Butterfly thought it did, they sold "L" and "S" oriented variants of rubber. I have here a blade on which is mounted two sheets of Sriver (I estimate the rubber to be about 20 years in age - surprisingly they're quite sticky, I'll have to try hitting with them sometime). The red sheet is labeled "Sriver-D13-S", it's got a row parallel to the base. The black sheet is labeled "Sriver-D13-L", and though you can't see the pips through the topsheet, you CAN see (along the bottom of the sheet) that there is no row parallel to the base. Yes, these are inverted sandwich (to use an archaic term), not pips out, and yes, Butterfly thought it mattered - one gave more speed, the other more spin, though I can't remember which now. Time to dig up some of my old-old catalogs. (Incidentally, "D-13" is old Butterfly nomenclature for inverted sandwich, pips out was "C-4". Makes you wonder why - was there ever a "D-14"? Or "C-3", and if so, what were they?)

Of course - if you want to play with pips in the other orientation, well, just mount the rubber sideways. There IS that pesky rule about leaving the identifier strip at the bottom of the sheet, though. Rubber manufacturers COULD make it easier by molding TWO identifier strips on the sheets, of course, but they don't. There was a time before the rule came into effect (I'm talking about early 70s here) that people would regularly cut their rubber on the other side of the sheet, leaving out the logo strip - that way the other guy couldn't tell WHAT rubber you were using! But then a lot of people didn't do this - probably brand snobbery. If you were going to spend a lot of money on a sheet of rubber you wanted everyone to know it.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Pip structure
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2014, 19:25 
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Hi everybody , as Martin says Neptun is good but after you pushing the ball it's jumping other side of table and stay higher than Sword sckyla , in case of the Sword , ball is traveling to other side with more speed and lower and cause more problem for short chopper's and regular player's but sword has it's own down side's . first is an low control pips when is coming for service return and second is does not have good spin revers. good luck to all long pips players


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