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PostPosted: 02 Sep 2009, 05:15 
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guys, what techniques do you employ against long pips players?

personally, i find it very tiring to play long pips players.

Please advise, thanks!!!

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PostPosted: 03 Sep 2009, 00:20 
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MeowMeow630 wrote:
guys, what techniques do you employ against long pips players?

personally, i find it very tiring to play long pips players.

Please advise, thanks!!!


Maybe Admin can re-post this in the Long Pimple Rubber section and MeowMeow630 can provide information on how the LP player played, what made it very tiring, what he had it tried to do but maybe wasn't so successful etc and the other guys can then chime in?


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PostPosted: 03 Sep 2009, 07:34 
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Push to the Lp's, remember that those rubbers cannot put any spin on the ball, all the spin is yours, then play the ball as if it has been blocked and drive forward. It can be very fustrating, but with practice you will gradually be able to read these rubbers. Hope this helps, but if not PM me and I can give you further advice. WW

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PostPosted: 03 Sep 2009, 12:15 
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I do pretty good against fellow long pips players.. However, what I do can't be re-created with inverted on both sides..

1) against classical defense:
No spin balls into the pips. Fast, dead serve into the pips. I'll push against dead blocks and if he twiddles and chops with inverted, I'll use druckschlupf back into their backhand.. I'll also try to get them to attack if they don't have a strong attack.. Getting a classical defender to attack often leads to mistakes on their side.

2) against attacking choppers, I try to give them dead balls into the pips and pin them on their backhand side (with all dead blocks). If they try to play forehand from the backhand side, I'll place the ball wide into their forehand. The key is to keep them out of position for their attacks and to give them dead balls into the pips.

3) against fellow lp blockers, I usually try to play dead balls from my pips into theirs. I'm confident that I will win most pushing/blocking rallies with all dead balls. Long pips players usually don't like dead balls.

4) against long pips attackers, I try to serve topspin into the pips. Most long pips attackers are not as consistent attacking topspin than they are against chop or dead balls. So, usually they will block topspin serves back. Depending on the type of pips, this either produces a dead ball or chop. Now, depending on the opponent, I either 3rd ball attack (twiddling to inverted or short pips) or, if the opponent has a good service return that is hard to attack, I will use druckschlupf into their forehand which will produce a low topspin ball into their forehand (if their initial block has chop). Many of them don't like those low topspin balls into their inverted side.

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PostPosted: 03 Sep 2009, 13:47 
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There is NO guarantee way to beat LP players.
Each player is different.
For example : the way pushblocker said he would do against attacking chopper is to "try to give them dead balls into the pips and pin them on their backhand side" - Question is what if that chopper is more skilled on BH and overall LP techniques? Will you go to his BH and fight on battle that you're in disadvantage position?

It doesn't hurt to try what you heard but like I said before each player is different, they are not built from the same mold. You have to play "the player" and find weakness.

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PostPosted: 03 Sep 2009, 16:29 
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MeowMeow630 wrote:
guys, what techniques do you employ against long pips players?

personally, i find it very tiring to play long pips players.

Please advise, thanks!!!


On behave of all LP players, I apologize for causing you so much pain, but what were your general problems? Let me guess, can't read the spins; the ball moves during the flight; a top spin stroke end up an under spin ball; a push end up with a slightly top spin ball; a chop end up a no spin ball. Seems about right?

Most LP players play some kind of defense game style, that means chop most of the time, however, some of us are now working on attacking with LP, against u-spins, no spin or even top spins. I don't know whether you have encountered this style yet, they are much more difficult to play.

As BH said, each and every LP players play a little different, there is no one way to play against a LP player, read more in this forum, adapt your style, learn the spins on the returned ball, remember the action and reaction and learn how to deal with it. The most important thing you need to know is not afraid to play a LP player, you will get used to it sooner or later.


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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2009, 03:13 
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As Bogeyhunter remarked, there is no guaranteed way to beat an LP-player. If you want to win, you have first of all to let go of the notion that there is some way to win of everybody. There are a lot of different LP's around and there are even more different ways of playing with them. For instance, since the ban on frictionless pips it is plain stupid to think that offering an LP-player no-spin balls will do you any good - every LP on the market today will have friction enough to kill that kind of ball. So if you are counting on blind mechanical spin-reversal, you simply don't know what you are dealing with.
There are, roughly speaking, three kinds of LP's.
The first kind is low-friction. Examples: Palio CK, Double Fish 1615, Friendship 755, DHS C7. These LP's will reverse incoming spin well, but only if the player wants this. For instance, a passive block will reverse incoming spin, but a passive block with slight forward movement will produce a dead ball. You will normally be unable to spot the difference. If your opponent doesn't know how to handle his LP, you can feed him/her spin and expect the reverse, but if he or she does know how to handle the LP, you will be better off to load up your loops, keep them on the table (hitting softly), and try to beat your opponent by making him/her move left to right and in and out. If balls bounce high you can attempt to kill them, but even then make sure you put decent topspin on.
The second kind of LP is the all-round one. Examples: Friendship 837, Globe 979, Dawei Saviga V, maybe Galaxy 955 and Neptune. Although these LP's will reverse heavy spin, they won't do so without help from the player (who has to use his wrist). You cannot rely on reversal. You will have to move your opponent around the court a lot and load up your soft loops even more.
The third kind is the chopper's LP. Examples: TSP Curl P1R, Butterfly Feint Long II and III, Juic Leggy, Dawei 388D, Hallmark Frustration. These LP's work like inverted rubbers whilst they are pretty much insensitive to incoming spin. If you are up to an opponent who knows how to use them, you can kiss your sorry ass goodbye, unless you are able to load up your loops as a professional can and even then you'll have to be smart and push or drop-shot regularly.

A much better way of dealing with the situation is to watch in the first game very closely what happens when you push or loop and then adjust your game accordingly.

Of course, if you are using short pips expertly, no LP-player stands a chance. But I don't figure you're using pips...

Wacking Wayne wrote:
Quote:
Push to the Lp's, remember that those rubbers cannot put any spin on the ball,

Sorry Wayne, only LP's from the first category on no sponge might have this deficiency. And even they can be used to kill that pushed ball instantaniously if it is slightly long. If you suggest pushing balls just over the net, you're advising a defensive strategy against a defender. That will produce a long match, probably a boring one, and the real defender will of course win.

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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2009, 09:34 
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Bogeyhunter wrote:
There is NO guarantee way to beat LP players.
Each player is different.
For example : the way pushblocker said he would do against attacking chopper is to "try to give them dead balls into the pips and pin them on their backhand side" - Question is what if that chopper is more skilled on BH and overall LP techniques? Will you go to his BH and fight on battle that you're in disadvantage position?

It doesn't hurt to try what you heard but like I said before each player is different, they are not built from the same mold. You have to play "the player" and find weakness.


I think that when playing pips to pips, I usually have the advantage, especially since switching to my current rubber. I did have issues with dead balls with my previous equipment and would block long. When I played you, I blocked about 3 - 4 balls per game off the table because you mixed up the spin very well and trew in some dead balls when i didn't expect them. With the SE7EN Block, I can play a lot better against dead balls than before.. The blocks off the table accounted for more than the difference in our game. For example, I would never play you through your forehand as you place the ball too well and you can start dictating the direction and start to move me. Any time that I went through your forehand, you usually made the point unless you were out of position.. When I went to the backhand, we split.. I made the mistake that I went off my strategy and tried something different while I should have stayed with my initial strategy.. I have to prevent you from moving me. As long as I dictate direction, I'm ok but as soon as you are able to move me, you will have the advantage. I did better the last time than I did the first time.. I'm learning from my mistakes. I should be able to give you a pretty good match next time.. I'm not predicting that I'm going to win as you are a very strong player but I think that I'll do better than before.. Those videos really help.. I usually do fairly well against players of your style.. (i.e. Chi Chan). The difference is that you have more variation from your pips than he has. The rest of your game is fairly similar....forehand attack and backhand chop/block. You are one of the exceptions as I'm usually doing pretty well against fellow long pips players.

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Last edited by Pushblocker on 04 Sep 2009, 20:39, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2009, 11:12 
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I like the way Pushblocker has suggested his tactics and stratagies as at least you are starting the game with your head first, and adjustments can be made along the way.
Rather than play your one style against all types of LP players ,I have never realy thought too much on how to use my LP to control other players , I just wait for any kind of pop up ball and I just go for it lol (even if Im out of position) ill still usually try and smack it.

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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2009, 12:04 
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rodderz wrote:
I like the way Pushblocker has suggested his tactics and stratagies as at least you are starting the game with your head first, and adjustments can be made along the way.
Rather than play your one style against all types of LP players ,I have never realy thought too much on how to use my LP to control other players , I just wait for any kind of pop up ball and I just go for it lol (even if Im out of position) ill still usually try and smack it.


Of course, my strategy is only a starting point and adjustments are needed in many cases.. The whole goal of any strategy should be to play your strength against your opponents weakness or if that doesn't work, try to prevent the opponent to catch your weaknesses. In my case I need to be the one controlling the placement and preventing my opponents gain control of placement. As soon as I'm the one that has to move more to get to the ball, I'll have a hard time winning. I will usually keep most opponents on their backhand as it will be more difficult for them to exploit my almost non existing forehand.. Of course, my strategy is completely tailored to my game and might not apply to most other players..

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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2009, 12:25 
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rodderz wrote:
I have never realy thought too much on how to use my LP to control other players , I just wait for any kind of pop up ball and I just go for it lol (even if Im out of position) ill still usually try and smack it.


At some point, the pop up will never happen. Let's say you play Pushblocker, Pushblocker will not give you easy balls to go for it then you have to start doing SOMETHINGS.

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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2009, 20:11 
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Kees wrote:

Wacking Wayne wrote:
Quote:
Push to the Lp's, remember that those rubbers cannot put any spin on the ball,

Sorry Wayne, only LP's from the first category on no sponge might have this deficiency. And even they can be used to kill that pushed ball instantaniously if it is slightly long. If you suggest pushing balls just over the net, you're advising a defensive strategy against a defender. That will produce a long match, probably a boring one, and the real defender will of course win.


Ok, there can be a trace of backspin, but nothing like the amount that can be applied with Reverse rubber, when the LP's are pushing back against a heavily chopped push. Also the inferance that any long ball will be instanty killed, is unrealistic. Playing short is IMO a great strategy against an LP player, particularly when mixed with attack, and particularly when the LP player is an off table defensive chopper.

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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2009, 20:43 
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Bogeyhunter wrote:
rodderz wrote:
I have never realy thought too much on how to use my LP to control other players , I just wait for any kind of pop up ball and I just go for it lol (even if Im out of position) ill still usually try and smack it.


At some point, the pop up will never happen. Let's say you play Pushblocker, Pushblocker will not give you easy balls to go for it then you have to start doing SOMETHINGS.
Absolutely, pop up balls don't just happen, especially against strong opponents.. You have to have a strategy to make your opponent pop up the ball.. You won't create them just by playing without a specific strategy.

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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2009, 21:14 
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Quote:
Bogeyhunter wrote:
rodderz wrote:
I have never realy thought too much on how to use my LP to control other players , I just wait for any kind of pop up ball and I just go for it lol (even if Im out of position) ill still usually try and smack it.


At some point, the pop up will never happen. Let's say you play Pushblocker, Pushblocker will not give you easy balls to go for it then you have to start doing SOMETHINGS.
Absolutely, pop up balls don't just happen, especially against strong opponents.. You have to have a strategy to make your opponent pop up the ball.. You won't create them just by playing without a specific strategy.
Bogeyhunter wrote:
rodderz wrote:
I have never realy thought too much on how to use my LP to control other players , I just wait for any kind of pop up ball and I just go for it lol (even if Im out of position) ill still usually try and smack it.


At some point, the pop up will never happen. Let's say you play Pushblocker, Pushblocker will not give you easy balls to go for it then you have to start doing SOMETHINGS.
Absolutely, pop up balls don't just happen, especially against strong opponents.. You have to have a strategy to make your opponent pop up the ball.. You won't create them just by playing without a specific strategy.


Yes I understand it got alot to do with the level of player you are against and with a the lower level then , less understanding of a push with pips and a push with inverted :D but I still enjoy the pop up and smack like no tommorow lol :lol:

Im just trying to attack more short balls with my meteortite .5 and I find it fairly easy to hit a relacked backhand topspin from 4 meters back etc

but for me its more about thinking about stratgegy for different types of players , I don't want to pidgeon hole styles but I still think its good to look at thier bat and rubber ,learning a little from the warm up , watching them before and then deciding on a stratagy ( I tend not to do this even though I know I should)

So I understand a bit better If Pushblocker says if Im playing such and such Ill do this etc etc and I also understand Bogeyhunter when he suggests everyone is different ,
sooooooooo its just means being proative and keep adjusting when needed (just a mental note to myself)

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2009, 02:12 
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Hi Guys,
Firstly, very sorry for my late reply, I was having a hectic week fighting fire at office.
I also want to thank you all for sharing your valuable experiences and skills. Thank you very much.

I have very limited replies to the LP players' weapons, as i have problems in identifying spins created by the long pips. I had to keep thinking it is the reversal... but somehow or rather, it was always a 50% guessing game. Some examples are: I kept whacking balls out although they are well over the net. This could be attributed to the very little or no spin nature of the blocks i get from LP. This uncertainty always turned into lack of confidence as more and more mistakes surfaced... :(

The other big problem i encounter is that i was always put into a circumstance of playing to the LP players' rhythm and speed. I was being controlled and I could not pull away from this and execute my own game easily.

Pushblocker has a given some very detailed strategies to use. Thanks bro! I will try to use these strategies.. and I think i will spend a long time to play at your level.

Bogeyhunter and Kees said that there is no single fixed way to play against LP Players. I agree. I believe it is also the level of the player we are in question when he plays against the LP player too. I still do believe that on a fair day and same skill level, aggressive play wins defensive. I think i have to work on observing how players play using different brands of rubbers. This really requires some serious research... takes time.

At this moment, I need to work on playing more carefully and work on placement and control for all my strokes in other to play the LP Player. I do hope this is a natural development for me... due to my less than effective strategies I have presently against a LP player.

I was advised by some friends on switching LP. Basically, they opened my views towards the game in totality cos i'm using penhold...c-pen both side rubber, rpb. Which may be too taxing for me in time to come.. 36yr old already.. seems like the TT table gets bigger as the year goes by.. :(
I am open to the idea of switching to use LP in order to add a more all rounded defensive dimension to my game, perhaps it will be useful to regulate the speed and to set up for some useful attacks. Well, if it is useful and good... why reject?

That is an idea that i'm always open to if cannot harness any effective game using my present set-up.
So now, I'm giving myself a last chance for myself. :)

Thanks again for sharing your valuable experiences, I have benefited a lot from you guys!
And lastly, I hope to have the chance to meet up with you guys for a game!!
But disclaimer: I really suck at playing LP now... and i do not wish to win by boring you to death.. haha..

Thanks bros!!

Best Regards

Stanley

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