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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2009, 20:37 
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I recently changed from BT to Meteor 8512 OX. It's curious that my feeling is that I have more time to react and besides the ball is much more controllable. Perhaps I'll return to BT again when my legs get faster...

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2009, 22:29 
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Quelis wrote:
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besides the ball is much more controllable

At the site of a reliable German web-shop, Bomb Talent is rated 4 for control (and a warning is added that it isn't so easy to control), whereas the Friendship 755 is rated 7 (and labeled as very easy to control); the Meteor is at least as controlable as the 755, probably better, so would maybe have been rated 8... By comparison, the Dawei Saviga V is rated 6.5 for control and I guess the Dawei 388D would get more or less the same rating, or maybe 7. But how you weigh these figures probably depends on how aggressively your play is; if you tend to be more defensive, control is more important, whereas if you want to attack with the LP, other qualities may count more than control.

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2009, 22:37 
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A friend of mine playing inverted on both sides told me that he had problems to read the ball spin when I played with BT (and he has played against a lot of LPs). No matter what stroke used.

However, I also had many problems playing BT: correct my position very fast and my stroke for the very same reasons.

So, if you take into account that Meteor 8512 it's cheaper and that it probably lasts more (when I took my BT out, some pips sides were parted), the decision is easy.

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2009, 18:39 
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I wonder how the German shop defines control?

I've used them both as well. The 8512 (OX)has very good control IMO, and it's very slow. However my practice partner seems to have a lot less trouble with the 8512. SPin reversal is a lot less too compared to the BT.

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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2009, 17:17 
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Haggisv wrote:
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I wonder how the German shop defines control?

So do I. My guess is they mean something like the ease to use it without a lot of practice, so anything that is faster than the average LP or needs a lot of wrist-action to get it to do what you want is considered to be low in control.

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I've used them both as well. The 8512 (OX)has very good control IMO, and it's very slow. However my practice partner seems to have a lot less trouble with the 8512. SPin reversal is a lot less too compared to the BT.

I had a lot of trouble making the Meteor work, too. For instance, if I hit with it, it will produce mostly dead balls, and if I hit in a looping style, grazing the ball a bit going forward over it, the rubber actually produces a bit of topspin; so hitting in this way as such isn't very dangerous. I almost gave up on it because of that (turned to the Dawei 388D). But then I found that if I hit going sideways a bit, forcing the pips not to bend with the rotation, reversal is suddenly there; the same, but a bit less, if you hit making contact with the ball only going forward (punch). So spin-variation in a series of fast crisp returns over the table is quite possible. The same is true for pushing: pushing slow will produce little spin, pushing fast will produce much more spin, pushing and moving the bat sideways will reverse spin. And it is the same again with chopping. If I chop slow, without much wrist, the ball will be almost dead or have very little backspin; but grazing the ball and using quick wrist-action produces a lot of backspin; using the wrist but without grazing the ball, making fuller contact will produce little backspin. So chopping can be done very deceptively too, because it is hard for the opponent to see and read what you are doing exactly and hence what to expect. The more sponge you use, the better it is, for the sponge muffles the sound, so the opponent cannot hear what you are doing either.
I am not sure this LP produces really heavy backspin the way for instance a Butterfly Feint Long III can. Firstly, because I don't know how good my chopping is and how much more you can get out of this LP; over the last few months and even weeks, I seem to have improved, which would indicate that it can be done still better, so more backspin may be possible. Secondly, because I've not figured out yet the (to me, at least) intricate way spin-reversal works both with and against grip when it comes to producing backspin; or both with and against flex, and length, and so on; so I couldn't say the Meteor is by its specifications alone a very good chopper LP. But then again the Feint Long II also only produces moderate backspin (according to Noppen-test.de - and they should know) and still is widely used among pro's, because it is a good LP for producing variation. So I guess the Meteor is at least a good enough chopper-attacker rubber, not so easy to handle at first maybe, and perhaps not for chopping your opponent down from a safe distance, but for checking his attack and drawing out weaker returns which you can attack yourself.

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PostPosted: 25 Dec 2009, 12:28 
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Here is a book I could write:
"Complete Idiots Guide to LP for Choppers"

Text- Feint long 2 or TSP Curl P1-r

the end.

The book for blockers/LP attack would be MUCH longer.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2010, 18:53 
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Gee, that's a great resource! :)

Now that I'm back to the dark side, I really appreciate your work.
Currently I'm using Giant Dragon Meteorite LP, at Alex's recommendation...but if that doesn't work out I'll use your list to choose my next LP.

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2010, 20:29 
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I was quite impressed with how easy the Giant long and the Meteorite played right out if the package. In OX it had easy control and produced good reversal and good all around. If you chop more and do not hit as much I would say P1r, Feint II is easier to use and with good technique, can give progressively heavier chop after chop. Just my opinion of course when testing on a defensive blade.


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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 07:18 
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It would seem that Giant Dragon has come out with the greatest number and variety of LP's this past year. It appears that the company is trying to increase its market share and with better quality materials(not just LP's). It would seem they are at least spending lots on R&D. All of their newer pips I find rather easy to adjust to..the have lots of control no matter what other different properties they have. To me they are the manufacturer of the year.

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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2011, 06:29 
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vanjr wrote:
Here is a book I could write:
"Complete Idiots Guide to LP for Choppers"

Text- Feint long 2 or TSP Curl P1-r

the end.

The book for blockers/LP attack would be MUCH longer.


Add Feint Long 3

Ian

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011, 00:05 
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Another thread which encourage me to join the forum and in the same time helped me during my first weeks of LP venturing :)
Always a joy to read your posts sir Kees, even up until now.

I was too amazed while reading your post that I forgot to reply :lol:
So here is my thanks now Sir Kees. Thank you for the guidance :up:

I like the short discussion about ribbed-smooth pips too :)

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2012, 11:14 
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I would definitely recommend Grass Dtecs because it is just the slimiest LP rubber I have used (at least for blocking loops). Great spin reversal. Probably the fastest pips I have ever used though, so be forewarned.

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PostPosted: 06 Jun 2014, 15:15 
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I think as with most things in life, you have to try it for yourself to see what suits your style the best. And there are always some trade offs you need to balance and decide what is good for yourself.

There is one blade I also use as a "standard" to test rubbers. Especially for OX LP, the type of blade you use makes a huge difference to the behaviour of the LP. So for me, at least I have some thing to always compare to


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2014, 00:17 
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I like the pseudo scientific approach you took in this thread, I say pseudo just because there isnt any proper physical measurement of any of the qualities pips have, but still you describe them quite good.

Im using Bomb Talent OX in Red in Hallmark Aurora on the DEF side, and sadly some pips broke, so Im considering trying some similar pip, but just in case, I'll describe how I feel about it, so you can give me your opinion on a similar LP.

For passive blocking close to the table its not that slow, with little to no reversal.
Chop blocking is kinda hard, but gives massive reversal, and if I actively block the balls goes deep, in a straight line, with no spin.
Hitting against underspin its quite good but it doesnt reverse that much, and cutting against it returns a dead ball.

Far from the table fishing topspins returns dead balls and chopping returns heavy underspin balls.

I really really love this LP, because the opponent cant exactly predict how the balls is going to return since depending on what I do I can reverse the spin or kill it, which confuses a lot, I think this is thanks to its grippy sides and non grippy pips surface, right?

The only troublesome thing is that its way faster than some more popular pips like D Tecs or Talon, so I would like to know if there is another LP with the characteristics I mentioned, but slower.

Thank you :D

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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2014, 17:12 
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