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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2010, 08:38 
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Hi all,

I found a good msg forum that did a great analysis on pip rubber. The forum is in Chinese and I use Google Translate to translate them into English. There are quite a few of them so I'll just post two as a start. I also provided the link if you want to look at it directly.

Hope this is helpful and please feel free to comment on this.

1st Topic: Vertical alignment and horizontal alignment, which will give more spin?

Here is the article site:
http://www.ssttc.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=5301&extra=&page=6

Image

Vertical alignment and horizontal alignment of the pip is determine by the particle alignment in the vertical side or horizontal side (See photo above). Vertical alignment has said to generate more speed and horizontal alignment generates more spin. Is there really an actual difference?

So we ask the manufacturer, Tamasu (Butterfly) R & D team belives that "mechanical testing can not determine the difference, but among the players, some people feel more vertical alignment are spinnier, and some people feel horizontal alignment are spinnier. Maybe some will feel the difference, but there is no absolute standard ". On the other hand ,TSP Researcher believes that " It is difficult to provide theoretical based explanation, but in fact many players believe that the horizontal alignment of the pip more likely to spin, it is also believe to be true after test hit with it."
The results can only be said with the feeling of individual users .
(Note : My Personal feeling is that '' vertical aligned pips are good at attack, horizontally aligned can feel more friction).

How Pip Alignment Effects The Direction of The Ball

1) Chop using vertical aligned pip.
Because the ball can't smoothly roll on the blade (like driving on a bumpy road), it will be very unstable to chop and not beneficial for chopper. But vertical alignment "grab" the ball quite well, therefore more beneficial to front line attack/defense style. This concept also applies to inverted rubber. The same pip alignment is also used for inverted rubber.
Image

2) Chop using horizontal aligned pip.
The ball can roll smoothly when chopping with horizontally aligned pip rubber, unlikely to pop up like vertically aligned. More beneficial for chopper. But because it does not "grab" the ball, it is not commonly used on inverted rubber focusing on loop.
Image

3) Loop using vertical aligned pip. It is easier to stuck the ball in between the pip line, therefore easier to bring the ball up. Same concept for inverted rubber. At the same time, the bigger the pimple and less spacing, the harder it is to "grab" the ball. This will create more impact to the pip and into the sponge to use the power of the sponge. Same concept for inverted rubber with bigger pimple.
Image

4) Loop using horizontal aligned pip. It is harder for the ball to stuck in between the pip line and harder for the rubber to "grab" the ball. But more friction will applied to the ball thus create more spin. Therefore pip rubber focusing on spin are more likely to be horizontally aligned. Same concept apply to inverted.
Image

5) Butterfly Sriver "S" and "L" are two examples of inverted rubber with different pip alignment.
Image
-------------


2nd Topic: Rubber selection analysis table


Image

Here is the article site:
http://www.ssttc.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=5301&extra=&page=7


Rubber surface can be divided into the speed, spin and no spin category. If you're not sure which style is better for you then you can try answering the questionnaire and find out.

QUESTION (1)-1 Your game style and the side where you put the rubber
A Shake hand grip attacker, rubber on fh → go to question (1)-2
B Shake hand grip attacker, rubber on bh → go to question (1)-3
C Pen Holder grip attacker, rubber on fh → go to question (1)-2
D Defense chopper player, rubber on bh → go to question (1)-4

Question (1)-2 The characteristic on the rubber that you're looking for?
A To determine the winning point → Analysis result: Use the [ speed ] type rubber .
B For Stability --> Analysis result: Use the [ spin ] type rubber

Question (1)-3 What do you want to achieve with your back hand?
A To block shot and create opportunity to attack --> Analysis result: use [ Mix effect ] type rubber.
B To block shot (block) score →Go to question ( 2)

Question (1)-4 What kinds of effect do you want from backhand chop?
A Underspin and attacking → Result: use [ spin ] type rubber
B Different types of chop → Result: use [ Mix effect ] type

QUESTION 2. Which types of rubber would you choose?
A Rubber that is easy to use, but generate shots that can be return easily → Go to question (3)
B Rubber that is not easy to use, but can generate shots that are not easy for the opponents to hit → Result: Use [ Mix effect ] type rubber

Question (3) What is your attention ?
A Block shot and spin. Results: use [ Spin ] type
B Attack and speed. Result: use [ speed ]type


Last edited by kentyu on 20 Jul 2010, 10:29, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2010, 09:09 
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Once you have determine the types of style that fit you (Speed, Spin, or Mix), that site continues to explain the different types of pip softness and sponge thickness

http://www.ssttc.com/forum/viewthread.p ... ra=&page=7


Here are the rubbers available for each category. This is base on rubbers that are available in 2007. So probably newer rubbers are available now:

Speed
Image

Spin
Image

Mix
Image


Last edited by kentyu on 20 Jul 2010, 07:56, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2010, 09:45 
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Thanks a lot kentyu, some very good information there! I'll try and embed some of the images in your post.

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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2010, 09:56 
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haggisv wrote:
Thanks a lot kentyu, some very good information there! I'll try and embed some of the images in your post.


Very nice! Including that very interesting questionnaire. :D

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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2010, 12:30 
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Thanks haggisv! I'll try to post more useful info later.


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2010, 07:39 
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Basic pip tutorial continue..

Image

The three types of pip shape are: "Ladder", "Cylinder + Ladder", and "Cylinder"

Type-1 Ladder Shape
With the ladder shape, the pips will not bend as much compare to cylinder shape therefore it is more stable and able to create more spin. Most of the "Spin" type pips are in this shape.

Type-2 Cylinder + Ladder
This is a combination between Cynlinder and Ladder shape. With this type, it is easier to generate spin and no spin ball with this. This is the more popular shape among the pips.

Type-3 Cylinder
The characteristic about this shape is that the pip can bent easily therefore are less effected by incoming spin and able to generate no spin ball. Most of the long pips are in this shape.

**Besides the shape of the pip, the spin and speed of a pip rubber can also be effected by other factors such as the alignment of pip, the softness of the sponge and the spacing between the pip.

Here are few images of different pip rubber for you to compare:

1) TSP P3R. There is a thin cut at the bottom to make the pip bent more freely
Image

2) TSP Spin series
Image

3) (Spin) TSP Super Spin is horizontally aligned/ (Speed) TSP Spectol vertically aligned
Image

4) Raystorm (although it is a spin pip rubber, the shape is speed shape)
Image

5) Raystorm vs Flarestorm (same pattern)
Image

6) Raystorm vs Flarestorm (same design except for sponge hardness)
Image

7) Raystorm sponge hardness. 47.5
Image

8.) Flarestorm sponge hardness. 59
Image

9) Raystorm vs Flarestorm. Different pip spacing
Image

10.) Raystorm vs Tryanno (orange sponge)
Image

11. ) Raystorm vs Trayanno
Image


Last edited by kentyu on 20 Jul 2010, 09:14, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2010, 07:41 
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Thanks all and sorry for posting so many images.
Hope this is useful.


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2010, 08:50 
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Wow, that is fantastic kentyu!!! Very interesting read!

They don't have something similar about long pips have they? I've love to read about that as well!

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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2010, 10:21 
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Hi haggisv,
I'm glad you like the postings. I updated my first post with more info. :)
Yes, they went through a great deal to explain about long pips too but it got too technical and foreign to me so I didn't bother to read it since I was only reading about short pip.... -_-
(ex. design of different brands, pip softness, height and width of the pip, sponge thickness vs ox, rubber thickness between the bottom of the pip to the sponge!, rubber vs players style, etc..)

Ex: This is a more common sense example
OX vs Sponge.
OX is more for defensive because less contact ball causing the ball to slip. Benefits are 1)more changes, 2)easier to chop and generate no spin ball.
Sponge = more contact point and less likely to slip. Benefit = 1) easier to hit, stable 2) faster in speed, 3) generate underspin, good for attacker.
Image


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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2010, 07:22 
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WOW... thanks for this super informative thread kentyu! :up:

I'm just about to use my first vertically aligned pip and am looking forward to it. It is on my BH & the additional speed should be welcome.
I can s p i n with my FH! :rofl:

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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2010, 09:00 
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I just switched from TSP Spectol (smaller pip, vertically aligned) to Joola Express Ultra (bigger pip, horizontally aligned, w/ green power sponge). It felt so different and I wasn't sure why till I found those articles. Joola EU definitely can provide more underspin when pushing and now I know why. I'm still confused whether I like pips that are vertically aligned or horizontally aligned. So far I'm still leaning toward vertically aligned pips but will continue to use EU for few more times.


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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2010, 09:47 
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I think the grip and softness of the pips, and the sponge, would make the biggest difference to spin, but all other things being equal, the pip arrangement obviously does make a difference.

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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2010, 15:17 
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that is so true.

Got to play with Joola Express Ultra a bit more tonight and I have to say that I'm beginning to like it even more now.

Here is my side by side comparison of Spectol vs EU on my Viscaria.

Image


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2010, 04:37 
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Andro Blowfish (Red) vs Blowfish+ (Black)

Image

Andro Blowfish : Speed 106, Spin 83, Control 80, Horizontal alignment + Ladder shape -- Spin Type.
Andro Blowfish+ : Speed 107, Spin 81, Control 77, Vertical alignment + Cylinder shape -- Speed Type.

BLOWFISH
Image

BLOWFISH+
Image


Review of the rubber done by a Japanese professional without knowing the brand of the rubber before the test. From 2010 June Magazine.
(** The brand on the rubber was cut off and replace with letters only during the test**)

Image

Picture A (YASAKA XTEND P.O)
Ball become super no spin, looks like it's a control style rubber
This belongs to control type rubber. It can create excellent no spin ball. The sponge and pip are both very soft. During the impact, there is a slippery feel and the ball just drops down. I think if it's raining or very humid, they ball will all go to the net.
It feels like Nittaku when hitting, but the pip pattern felt rough so probably not. Maybe it's Yasaka.

Picture B (JUIC PATISUMA II)
Spin is top of the line, suitable for front line spin attack type.
Short pip, the spacing is very close, therefore it goes well against humidity. The pattern on the pip has a rough feel so it focuses on spin. The rubber overall felt very hard, both the pip and sponge are hard, so the best style is close to the table style. When away from the table, even though the spin is enough, but fly distance is no enough. So the ball loses it's speed when away from the table.

Picture C (BUTTTERFLY FLARESTORM II)
Focuses on all round type, I would choose this to use for myself.
Speed, spin and control are all very balanced. The pip definitely looks like from Butterfly. Because the pips are vertically aligned, I think this should be "Flarestorm". Sponge on picture E plus rubber on picture G should become this one. But, the pip placement felt very loose, doesn't look like it's good againist humidity, will cause it to slip.

Image

Picture D (TIBHAR SPEEDY SOFT)
Soft and the pips are small, can really absorb opponent's power and create no spin ball.
This is the softest rubber, it can completely absorb opponent's impact and change to no spin. Hitting the ball doesn't make the ball go in a curve, instead it's flying like a straight line. Maybe this is very good for large ball (44mm ball)
A and H are very similar, small pip and long. The spacing between the pips are very narrow, can slightly create some spin. But because of the small pip, it tends to slip a bit when hitting.

Picture E (ANDRO BLOWFISH+)
Fastest speed and very powerful, even when moving back to mid distance.
The requirement for creating high speed is when the pip is further apart and the pip is a bit longer than the spin pip shape. The sponge of this rubber is very powerful and have very good elasticity, the flying distance is very impressive. Suitable for close to the table style, or aggressive attacker at mid distance.

Picture F (NITTAKU HAMMOND FA SPEED)
Small Ladder + Cylinder pip, it is more suitable for smashing than creating spin.
Ladder Cylinder pip shape is very easy to create spin style. But this rubber has small pip, should describe more like a pyramid. The contact point with the ball are small, the spacing between the pips are big, hitting the ball will slip and not able to grab. Compare to creating spin, it is more suitable for straight smash. Be careful about humidity during raining day. Just like the old Butterfly Resilom.

Picture G (JOOLA EXPRESS ULTRA)
Big pip and narrow spacing, good against humidity and good control.
E is still faster in terms of speed, but because the pips are shorter and bigger, therefore better againist humidity, control is also excellent. The pip itself is also very good, the sponge is soft, maybe it would be better if it's harder. If combine the sponge I'm using right now plus this rubber surface, then I will want to try.

Picture H (DONIC BAXSTER)
Softness of the rubber is very similar as D, very close to "Change" style type of pip rubber.
Near as soft as D but a little bit harder. The shape of the pip and alignment are all the same, also are more toward the "Change" style pip rubber. Because the pips are soft, I felt the pip will immediately bend when hitting. When hitting strong ball, it seems to slip easily. Maybe it's suitable for shakehand blade.


Last edited by kentyu on 23 Jul 2010, 01:31, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2010, 05:45 
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kentyu, thanks for the info this is great. Could you please tell us what the reviews of the other rubbers are. Thanks.

EDIT: Thanks for the update!

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Last edited by bvautier on 25 Jul 2010, 21:43, edited 1 time in total.

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