OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 23 Nov 2017, 13:08


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2007, 14:44 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31563
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1505 times
Been thanked: 966 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
What makes a good short pip for a chopping game? Is it still used for chopping at higher levels?

I know there's always hardbat, but that seems like a totally different style alltogether...

I would not mind making up a bat with short pips on one side, mainly for chopping, but with some decent ability to attack as well... It's always good to try these things yourself, so that if you come up against it you know more about what it can and can't do well...

Cheers!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!

 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2007, 17:17 
Offline
Rubber Killer!
User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 11:37
Posts: 674
Location: Under the table
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
802 is used by most of the top chinese choppers. So is TSP Spectol in 1.7/1.8 .

Both of these are ridiculously hard to chop effective with. Im still in the process of finding a right sponge for my 802 as I want a setup like that too :).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2007, 01:35 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 12:32
Posts: 1452
Location: USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 19 times
I find Chinese pips like 802 much easier to chop and block with than Japanese type pips like Spectol and Clippa.

If you use regular 802 or 802-1 (which has more widely spaced pips) with a thin sponge (like 1.0-1.5) you should be able to chop with it.

I was chopping yesterday with Double Happiness C7, a medium pip with 1.0 sponge and that seemed to work pretty well. I found it harder to attack with than spinnier short pips but easier to chop with.

-- Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2007, 02:16 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 12:32
Posts: 1452
Location: USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 19 times
With a very thin sponge or no sponge it's probably far more controllable.

I can chop fine with my Yasaka Cobalt (an OX only rubber) and that has a similar pip structure to Stiga Clippa and TSP Spectol. The C7 also has a vertical pip structure but seemed fine for chooping with a 1.0 blue sponge.

-- Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2007, 11:15 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31563
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1505 times
Been thanked: 966 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
You've mewntioned vertical and horizontal arrangement a few times Andrew. We had this topic in the long pimple section, but I'm not convinced how the arrangment can make much difference...

I assume it's the same for short pips... do you have any opinion on why one arrangement would behave different to the other?

Cheers!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2007, 12:45 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 12:32
Posts: 1452
Location: USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 19 times
The vertically oriented pips (Juic Offense, TSP Spin Pips MD, Stiga Clippa, Yasaka T-Original, Yasaka Cobalt, Nittaku Hammond FA, TSP Spectol, Butterfly Impartial, Butterfly Raystorm, DHS C7, Globe 889 , Tibhar Speedy Soft) seem to have a higher throw angle than the horizontally oriented pips (802, 799, 889-2, 802-40, Joola Tango Ultra, Winning NP8, Dawei 388B, Andro Revolution COR pis).

This was so noticeable that I could not use low throw pips on a low throw blade (like a 1 ply hinoki or balsa core) and I could not use high throw pips on a high throw blade (like a 9 ply wood or a high throw 7 ply or carbon blade). I have to match the two to each other pretty carefully.

As to why this is, I'm not sure but it seems to hold true for all of these different rubbers, even given the same sponge density and thickness.

-- Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: short pips chopping
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2007, 02:56 
Offline
Sitting on Defence
Sitting on Defence
User avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2007, 04:42
Posts: 1377
Location: USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Blade: Victas K.M.
FH: VS>401 2.0mm
BH: Dtecs 0.5mm
Yeah, I've also been interested in trying out some short pips for chopping. This subject in particualar seems to have a lot of variation in opinions as to their effectiveness. I know of some people who claim its nearly impossible to chop with, and at the same time I know some who like it better than lp's... :? I guess it really depends on the player, but it would be nice to establish some basic guidelines on what charateristics of a short pip would be most effective for chopping.

For example, is it better to go with something that's pretty grippy (802-40), or is something with less grip more effective (802). How about sponge thickness? From what I've read, most people who tried short pips and didn't like them used it in 1.5mm or above. Has there been much experimentation with a much thinner sponge like 0.8mm, or something like that? I know that I've tried some long pips in 1.3mm and didn't like them at all, only to switch down to 0.6mm and find that they were pretty good after all. I'm guessing a softer sponge would probably be preferable, but who knows? Maybe a thin, hardish sponge could work to keep the ball from bottoming out on the blade, and yet still keep the speed slow. How about OX? :lol: the list goes on and on...

I've ordered a couple of short pips to try out, so hopefully I can answer some of these questions myself. It seems like there are countless theories and specifications for long pips, but the subject of short pips (for choppping) is largely unexplored. Oh well, that's half the fun of table tennis for me anyway, I like trying out different stuff and making theories as to why, or why not it works. :)

_________________
Grab a free copy of the only training and nutrition guide written specifically for the table tennis athlete: The Table Tennis Player's Guide to Health and Fitness.
Feel free to PM me with any health, training, or nutrition questions :)

Kit: Victas Koji Matsushita | Victas VS > 401 2.0mm | Dtecs O.5mm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2007, 07:50 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 12:32
Posts: 1452
Location: USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 19 times
I would think that 802-1 in a 1.0 sponge would be a good starting point for chopping as it is grippy, but has spaced out pips.

I find it easier to use short pips (1.8-2.2) with soft sponge for an attacking game, but I see the point of a harder sponge in something as thin as 1.0.

-- Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2007, 04:57 
Offline
Sitting on Defence
Sitting on Defence
User avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2007, 04:42
Posts: 1377
Location: USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Blade: Victas K.M.
FH: VS>401 2.0mm
BH: Dtecs 0.5mm
I just had a hit with a sheet of 802 on 0.6mm sponge. Blocking was great, attacks were great, but boy...it sure was a lot harder to chop with! It definetely needs a thicker sponge, I could feel the ball hit the blade and rebound of very quickly. That being said, I do think that with a thicker sponge it could be more manageable. The chopping technique is not quite the same as long pips (or maybe there's just less margin for error). I'm going to give it another go hopefully in the next week with a better sponge.

_________________
Grab a free copy of the only training and nutrition guide written specifically for the table tennis athlete: The Table Tennis Player's Guide to Health and Fitness.
Feel free to PM me with any health, training, or nutrition questions :)

Kit: Victas Koji Matsushita | Victas VS > 401 2.0mm | Dtecs O.5mm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2007, 03:50 
Offline
Angel of Abbyss
User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 03:22
Posts: 366
Location: Belgium
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0 time
Interesting, I juste regret that most of the sort pimples are available with thick fast sponge. I think a slow sponge would also be interesting, maybe to try to replace a LP.

_________________
Blade : Tibhar COS3
Forehand: Moon Pro 2.0
Backhand: Neubauer Desperado Ox
****
http://www.diabolosyl.net (my own site)
http://www.tennis-de-table.com (biggest forum in France)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2007, 08:02 
Offline
Rubber Killer!
User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 11:37
Posts: 674
Location: Under the table
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Yesterday I had ordered a sheet of TSP Spectol 21 1.7mm for my friend. He absolutely loves it as Its a great allrounder. Well anyway I had a hit with the pips on a offensive cr and it was surprisingly easy to chop with. Alot easier to chop with then the 1.5 802.

I think the 37ish degree sponge on it helped alot to cushion the ball and keep it off the blade also the thickness of the sponge contributed to this as well.

The margin for error on chops is much lower. If you can get into position each and everytime for chops you can pull of marvelous shots.

This is just a initial impression, but I think Ill stick with LP for the time being.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2007, 04:35 
Offline
Angel of Abbyss
User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 03:22
Posts: 366
Location: Belgium
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0 time
What would you say about a friendship 802-1 in 1.2mm or 1.5mm, I will maybe try one and I wonder how it would work?
Would this be spinny with control?

In the same time, I will maybe try the 563, a medium one.

_________________
Blade : Tibhar COS3
Forehand: Moon Pro 2.0
Backhand: Neubauer Desperado Ox
****
http://www.diabolosyl.net (my own site)
http://www.tennis-de-table.com (biggest forum in France)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2007, 01:57 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 18 Jun 2007, 12:12
Posts: 3
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Haggisv,

I set up a bat close to what you have described just for fun, one that would chop and also attack if the opportunity arose. For one side I used 802 on 1.5 reactor sponge and glued it to a cheap medium speed and moderately stiff carbon arylate blade. I've had decent results with this set up and can even fh loop, but I have to open the blade about 20 degrees more than my normal looping stroke. Pretty nice to play with for a change of pace!

spinonthis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2007, 02:12 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31563
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1505 times
Been thanked: 966 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
That's pretty cool spinonthis, and welcome to the forum!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2007, 16:18 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 20 May 2007, 17:24
Posts: 299
Location: Thailand
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 3 times
I have just tried 'Dr.Neubauer Pistol 1.5 mm' for chopping. I think it's one of the best short pip for chopping. The ball is going very flat but consistent. The control is very easy so it will be my choice if I want to use short pip for defensive style.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: