OOAK Table Tennis Forum

802-40 is almost identical to SsP normal sponge...

spectol is nothing like 802, its vertically aligned and has less grip.

imo, no short pips chop remotely like LP and if they do they you arent getting benefits from sp.

if you are expecting them too, all you are going to find is disappointment and an eventual switch.

For my style of chop, SSC II was the easiest to control, however I learnt on 802 so i didnt like the softer sponge that much.

SSC II is VERY spinny just like 802 and ssp, but thats a GOOD thing....because they still maintain pure short pip caracteristics like the ability to smash through spin with fast contact, and the ability to add or subract spin AFTER the sponge has been engaged....

all short pips (except the banned tacky ones) have this ability regardless of how spinny they are....

to prove my point, try spinning a ball and bouncing it off any sp with super light contact.......sometimes the reversal outdoes even LP...

you could never actually utilize this in a game except in perhaps short touches, but it just shows that the premise behind all short pips, be it attacking chopping or whatever is the same...

@ dunc - 802 is awesome because its cheap and perfectly allround, however production quality of ssp and sspc II is much higher.

Just an updated description from TSP for this rubber, which I found interesting as it mentioned the players that it was designed for and using it:

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So I've had several sessions with this rubber in 1.5mm and thought I'd share a few quick notes.

It's very very soft and consequently far bouncier than say, 802 or 802-1 or spectol speed.
Anyway, my biggest concern is that in long loop-chop rallies, there's definitely a maximum amount of spin that it can impart. Now it could be true that I'm not playing a high enough level to be pushed back far enough, but I feel that if I can't impact quite as hard as with 802 as the sponge is so soft it catapults it back.

Consequently I get consistent low spin chops against loops, which I mean draws errors and all, and with how aggressive I play my game it works with me, but I think perhaps it needs a thinner sponge.

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I thought exactly the same, geko. Every spinny loop was destroying my chops, flying them off the table. I just couldn't get them back without angling my bat and floating.

However, now that I've been practising my LP chopping (and realising I wasn't brushing enough with LPs), I've come back to the SSCS2 and I've been amazed.

When I get the stroke right, and I put a lot of power into the downward action, and I make the correct fine brushing action, I genuinely find this rubber to be INCREDIBLY spinny. All of my opponents remarked that my chops were heavier than with the LPs (although against the super-spinny players it was much of a muchness).

Problem is, it's much harder to chop like that consistently. As Leatherback always says, if you're out of position with SPs you're ruined.

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I am really interested in this rubber as a consequence of the introduction of the new plastic ball.

I am curl p1R die hard fan, but i really miss the old spin reversal with the new ball. also the higher bounce results in my chops getting smashed (and i dont mean chopping spinless balls of the opponent, but their loops)

So i was thinking: with this rubber i can generate my own spin, do chopping and smash higher bouncing top spins?

I was also thinking of one of the spectols, but i think this rubber should be slower and better controlled. Muramatsu also plays it with the style i like. The plan would be to play the bh like muramatsu, sometimes turning the paddle to play with the inverted on backside and then a very active forehand like joo or chen weixing do. just with 95% less skill

Is there anybody here who has played this rubber on a regular basis and got really good with it? or somebody who has tested this rubber with the new plastic ball?

Or do you recommend different rubbers for my intended stlye of play? I am kind of sad that top choppers like joo se hyuk or shiono all say that they can not get old spin reversal and are reconsidering changing material with the introduction of the plastic ball. I wrote to TSP a couple of days ago, they answered in a very general way, saying that they would work around the clock on rubbers for the new plastic ball. i hope this wont be the end of lp chopping.

So you want to change from LP to SP? That's a completely different skill set and tactics you'll need to learn. Besides, SPs won't give you any spin reversal.

Where did you read/hear the latter part of your statemtn (about the top choppers)?

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My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

oak forum had interviews with joo se hyuk and shiono. they can be found on this page. viewtopic.php?f=56&t=22125

i have never played short pips, but Muramatsu plays them like long pips. and there is this other older chinese player (sorry forgot his name) who plays a spectol rubber like long pips. they have a different kind of spin, looks like sidespin, but i thought with a system change i might give it a go. i am too old and ambitious to switch to inverted so i thought i might get faster into sp. as long as the rubber industry has not developed better lps for the plastic ball i want to try something else. in my first tries with the ball i lost to players that i normally never loose to. i hope that the developement of the plastic ball will go on and it will become more like the celluloid ball, but i am sceptical. either the rubber industry solves it or i will have to try other material.

*Based on your experience, due to the changes in the equipment rules, how would you advise a youngster now starting the game who wants to be a defender? Would you suggest that they play with long pips, or should they turn to double inverted and attacking play? Would your answer be different depending on what standard of play they were aiming to achieve?

It's very challenging to be a defensive player. In order to win, you need to practice both offense and defense. It's really difficult to win with defense alone, so it's necessary to play offense - not just offense, but at the same level that the offensive players perform. Moreover, my guess is that long pips will be less beneficial when the ball changes to plastic in 2014. I've used it, and found that much less spin is produced.

*What impact did ITTF decisions (like the 38mm ball) have on top level table tennis, and what influence do you think the new PVC balls will have (in particular for defenders and defensive style)?

The decision can benefit some players while hindering others. The players are somewhat weary because they have to make adjustments (in response to the frequent changes in the rules). Also, the PVC ball doesn't spin very well. Again, it's likely that the new ball will be a hinderance for long pip users.

If you read the date the interview was posted on OOAK, you'll see it's posted on February 2013. That's more than a year ago and I'm quite certain top players hadn't access to the current seamed plastic ball then. If you read some of the current reviews on several fora, it seems most differences with the celluliod ball are gone. So I think you can keep using the P1-R or at least wait until the plastic ball has come out, so if changes are necessary, you know which ones.

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Thats true, but i have also seen youtube reviews of one of the two three star plastic balls that are already accepted by ittf.

and although they aint as bad as the first samples, they still show the characteristics of less spin and higher bounce.

It was not the one made by dhs, but that other company, sorry, i am bad with names. (xushafoa?)

the balls i played might not have been one of the latest models, but i know experienced table tennis coaches who play pips and tried the new offically accepted ball and were very frustrated with the lack of spin compared to the celluloid ball. there is a very good forum just for pips in german, so i dont know if its worth it sharing the link with you, but you could try google translator. (http://www.noppen-test.de/forum/viewtop ... ll#p182768)

i am torn between your very reasonable advice to wait for the final product and giving that some development time and the idea of being prepared and already adapting my playing system to how i predict the ball to be based on my tests and those of others.

but we are getting a bit off topic I am still interested what people think of those pips and the system i intend to play or whether they have other pips to recommend.

I understand your concern. However, those plastic balls from Xushaofa are seamless and those of DHS (that probably be used for international tournaments) will be seamed. I even think I read a couple of times that the plastic in the ball has a close resemblance to celluloid. I know noppentest and I can read german a bit, but thx for the link.

I never used SSC 2, so I cannot give advice about it.

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Now I have tested SSP2 and can give you a review. But only with celluloid balls as I did not test it with plastic balls.
In my opinion short pimples should be combined with a carbon blade with low bounce. Because short pimples make the ball bounce very high. In comparison to long pimples it is a different technique. First I had to play with a lot of side spin to control the topspin on the ball.
But after a while I was able to play defense similar to long pimple rubbers.
One big advantage in comparison to long pimples is the change of spin on the ball. In contrast to long pimples I can influence how much spin I play back. This is not really possible with long pimples.
But control is more difficult than with long pimples.

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Werner Schlager Academy - Table Tennis School in Vienna, Austria:
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Coach at WSA and modern defender.
Racket:
BTY T05 (2,1mm) - BTY Joo Se Hyuk, straight - TSP Curl P4 (1,5)

Thank you for your review fab. how do you rate the possibilies for attacking with that rubber? loops, flips etc?

Today i played for three hours for the first time with the rubber with a 1,5 sponge.

Compared to my curl p1r 1,0 i noticed the following things:

Its better in the close to the table game. My opponent made more mistakes on the first loop.

Chopping from far away from the table my first chops were alright, but from a certain point i could not add more spin as there seems to be no reversal.. I was also more prone to errors when i got sidespin loops. i also made more errors with my chops.

one of the biggest differences i noticed was the returning of services. that was a huge difference to my curl p1r. i made so much more errors as this rubber in general is a lot more sensitive to spin.

I could loop and smash/hit better with those loops compared to my curl p1r though.

I still enjoyed playing although i lost several sets to an opponent i usually dominate 90 % of the matches. There was one strange thing i noticed, after playing against me for like 15 sets with the sspc2 rubber, he had less difficulties looping my heavily chopped balls with the curl p1r, as if he had learned on the go.

i will keep this rubber on my blade for the next weeks though to see if i make any progress.

I know quite a few people that love this rubber. I've had a hit with someone's bat, and it's quite remarkable how the soft sponge can absorb the pace of a loop, but can still generate good pace when you're doing the hitting. A friend uses on defensive blades, and he gets great spin off it, can control most fast loops, and hits flat to finish points (long pimples on the backhand), so it's a very effective combination.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Is anybody on the Forum using this rubber competitively at the moment? I might give it a go at the end of the season.

Bulldog

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