OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Def-attack,

Did you get another go with the SSP yet? I'm interested in your latest findings. Thanks!

Joe

Sorry, forgot. Started a new thread here where I wrote a few words of yesterday's short practice with SP
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21842

This is what I wrote:
I had another little go wit SSP 1,0 mm chop sponge 2 yesterday. No good. I could not control my chops or service returns when I faced another opponent than my regular. Chops went high or to the net, but I did not relly try to change my technique. Only good was attacking, driving and perhaps blocking. I must say, now that I know a little more about SP, that I am really impressed about how Muramatsu returns services. He is very consistent.
I am still in love with my TSP Curl P-4 1,0 mm

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Roger that. I'll probably give both a try like you did. I'll be starting from a clean slate as I haven't tried either. Thanks!

any updates???

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Victas Koji Matsushita
Thibar Hybrid k1 euro max
TSP Curl p1-r 1.0

I tested the P4 Curl and SSPC2 both in RED and 1.0. Glued both on a Bty Diode. I prefer the SP's. For one, my pushes with the P4 kept going into the net. It really required a lot of physical effort and concentration to get those pushes over the net and even then I couldn't do it. Now this was my first time using LP's with sponge so maybe that's why? I've been experimenting with various LP's in OX for about 2 months now and this P4 is definitely harder to use (for me). Away from the table chopping was nice though, must admit. Now, the SP's were easy to push with, attack with pretty easy to chop with from a distance, but close to the table chopping was hard because the chops were often long. I also should say that no one in my play group is exceptional and there are no power loopers or super spinney players, so the SP's also help me generate my own spin on chops because I can't rely on reversal from LP's. Basically everyone pushes until they can smash...and I get crushed...but that's another story

I've been playing with SSCS2 for around a month now. Here are my findings.

• This rubber generates a significant amount of spin - genuinely not far off an inverted rubber
• As such, this rubber is also "very" (by SP definition) sensitive to spin, again similar to an inverted
• Against no spin, it's incomparable to LPs. You can generate a huge amount of your own spin, just like an inverted
• Against heavy backspin I find it easier to play than my old P1-R LPs - partially because I can just lift the ball and it will still retain some of my opponent's backspin
• It blocks like a slow inverted but with a bit of cushioning it can really kill the pace of the ball. I never tried this with my LPs so have no true comparison but I know I can't do it with my inverted
• Receiving topspin serves is infinitely more difficult than with LPs - you have to play it as you would an inverted, i.e. hitting it; adjusting your bat angle to compensate or coming off the table and trying to get as much of a chopping motion on it as you can
• Against a low amount of topspin (i.e. average lower division local league player), chopping is a delight. It's really easy and you can load up the backspin.
• Against higher levels of topspin, it becomes *significantly* more difficult - see my story below. This is where the rubber "falls down" to an extent, but if you learn how to play it, its variation potential is phenomenal
• I can generate enough topspin with a backhand topspin stroke to fool most players in the first one or two instances of a game. Further away from the table however I find it very difficult to loop the ball over the net if it's low
• I can flat-hit/drive with this rubber a lot easier than my LPs, though I've still made many a mistake when timing it wrong. You can hit through low levels of backspin better than an inverted but it's still susceptible to even moderate levels of spin so don't buy it thinking you can hit through backspin or topspin easily

So, my story. Tonight at the club I played against a D4 player (who I last beat 3-0 in the league), a D3 player (who has an 85% ratio 14 weeks into the season) and then a Premiership player (who has a mid-50s ratio but is only 16).

Playing against the D4 and D3 players, my SPs were fantastic. Generate my own spin, hit a little bit, chop perfectly adequately.

I then asked the Prem lad to give me some chopping practice and I couldn't get the ball on the table. I actually felt quite embarrassed. He was lacing the ball at me (topspin, not drive) and I couldn't get the ball down. After a few giggles - we get on really well - I explained that they were SPs and not LPs and we swapped bats. He had a go and despite being a semi-competent chopper himself, couldn't control the ball against my loops with his bat. I've got reasonable vs. backspin technique and with his bat (OFF- blade, T05FX rubber) I was looping the ball with reasonable pace.

After 10 or 15 attempts he suggested "you can't chop with this at all" and we swapped back. That gave me some confidence and made me feel less inadequate and I started chopping properly. With a few adjustments to my bat angle and much better technique - starting to the left of my head and finishing at my right knee with a very, very swift motion - I started getting the ball on the table AND making him net more than a couple of loops. At one point he said "wow, I'm impressed, that was loaded".

Earlier I read, on here, someone suggesting that SPs should be chopped with a technique of "short, controllable sweeps" a la Ding Song. I may be getting this entirely wrong but in my limited experience it appears that you should treat SSCS2 not too differently to an inverted chop - play a very long stroke and bring the bat through quick enough to put your own spin on the ball. That appears to be how Yuto Muramatsu does it, and that's what appears to work for me against heavier topspin.

Leatherback's the man to be discussing technique of SP chopping though, not me!

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

don't give it up brother!

@Dunc: thanks for this great contribution. How thick sponge do you use? Have you tried other SPs?

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Great post dunc!

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Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
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It's the 1.4-1.7mm sponge. Haven't tried other SPs, no - but I intend to at some point in the near future, just for comparison purposes.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I think 1.0-1.3 would be easier for chopping and handle opponent's spin.

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Truth be told I didn't realise it came in a thinner sponge.

Will it make a big difference for controlling spin? I'd imagine the topsheet is what causes the issues, with it being so spin-responsive?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I have no idea how big the difference will be. I guess it is equal to the difference between 1,5 och 1,1 mm sponge beneath a grippy LP perhaps? It also depends on your blade, your tehnique and so on... I am not much of a help here I realize ... Best thing is to try... Too bad it is an expensive rubber .

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

I Am really tempted to try this....

_________________
Victas Koji Matsushita
Thibar Hybrid k1 euro max
TSP Curl p1-r 1.0

I'm not specialized in SP, but a sponge difference of 0,5mm can make a tremendous difference. I remember I couldn't get any spin out of the P4 in 1,5mm, while DA (def-attack) could get enough spin out of the P4 in 1mm. We both were DTecs users in the same sponge thickness (first 1,2mm, later 1,6mm - I still use the 1,2mm btw).

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that