OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE

With the poly ball, I find carbon in blades causes more problems than it did with the 40 mm ball. Personally, I prefer a wooden blade for this ball, and one that isn't very hard or extremely stiff either.

Kees wrote:

Hi Kees, what do you currently think is the best blade/double SP setup for polyball?

Kees, I can see why the 802-1 is your favorite. The 2.2mm you suggested for forehand is awesome for my wood and carbon blade. The sponge is soft so that it allows a topspin stoke and also throws a lot lower than the regular 802. I do have a problem with high but slow and spinny loops with it but I'm sure it is a technique issue. If I smash, it would hit the net or fly long. What I have been trying to do is to distance myself from the table to allow me to take a full swing hit at it but it is so inconsistent. Hitting it off the bounce is better but I still have to weed out that "half inverted" stroke from my system to be consistent ( I still start my stroke very low

)

Then, start blocking, to find the correct angle, and gradually make this stroke more active, NOT by making your swing longer,

Technically, the worst mistake a pips player can make is driving or hitting with his arm instead of with his body.

Kees can you reccomend me a blade for my style (you can seee my videos in members videos) i buyed for 2017 fh spectol red 2,1 and for bh i use spectol 21 2,1.i used dhs cw-e blade.thanks

For fun, I glued a 755 0X on my wood blade and liked the result in my backhand.

j2sip wrote:

For fun, I glued a 755 0X on my wood blade and liked the result in my backhand.

Beckons you, the dark side does. Intriguing, it is.

I'm really impressed, great topic.
So, i want to try short pips on both sides of clipper. What cheap short pips should i try: 802, 802-40, etc...and what thickness should i use?
Regards.

Author:	mynamenotbob [ 27 Nov 2016, 19:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
Kees wrote: With the poly ball, I find carbon in blades causes more problems than it did with the 40 mm ball. Personally, I prefer a wooden blade for this ball, and one that isn't very hard or extremely stiff either. Hi Kees, what do you currently think is the best blade/double SP setup for polyball?

Author:	Kees [ 27 Nov 2016, 20:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
mynamenotbob wrote: Kees wrote: With the poly ball, I find carbon in blades causes more problems than it did with the 40 mm ball. Personally, I prefer a wooden blade for this ball, and one that isn't very hard or extremely stiff either. Hi Kees, what do you currently think is the best blade/double SP setup for polyball? Honestly, I've no idea. Its a personal thing, too; hard-hitters may like a stiffer blade than allrounders, blocker/hitters may prefer blades with a bit of balsa in it. One of my personal favourites is KTL Lord of the Balance, because of its (thin) cork/balsa core. It combines extremely well with my favourite SP, Friendship 802-1. Another favourite set-up is Globe 889-2 on a Globe 782 7ply blade. But I have used those rubbers on 5ply blades as well (tsp reflex 50 award All, Joola Eagle Medium) with good results. If I had to buy a new set-up now, for SP, I would go for a rather light-weight (75 to 80 grams), all-wood, Off- (on a scale from 0 to 100 somewhere high in the 80s), fairly stiff (on the same scale, somewhere between 85 and 95), high control 5ply blade, probably with Globe 889-2 on its new, softer and faster, red sponge in 2.0 mm. But if I had the money, I might order a Re-Impact Preference by Achim Rendler, for the 802-1; for me, that set-up would be best, but as I said, its personal.

Author:	j2sip [ 30 Nov 2016, 08:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
Kees, I can see why the 802-1 is your favorite. The 2.2mm you suggested for forehand is awesome for my wood and carbon blade. The sponge is soft so that it allows a topspin stoke and also throws a lot lower than the regular 802. I do have a problem with high but slow and spinny loops with it but I'm sure it is a technique issue. If I smash, it would hit the net or fly long. What I have been trying to do is to distance myself from the table to allow me to take a full swing hit at it but it is so inconsistent. Hitting it off the bounce is better but I still have to weed out that "half inverted" stroke from my system to be consistent ( I still start my stroke very low )

Author:	Kees [ 30 Nov 2016, 15:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
j2sip wrote: Kees, I can see why the 802-1 is your favorite. The 2.2mm you suggested for forehand is awesome for my wood and carbon blade. The sponge is soft so that it allows a topspin stoke and also throws a lot lower than the regular 802. I do have a problem with high but slow and spinny loops with it but I'm sure it is a technique issue. If I smash, it would hit the net or fly long. What I have been trying to do is to distance myself from the table to allow me to take a full swing hit at it but it is so inconsistent. Hitting it off the bounce is better but I still have to weed out that "half inverted" stroke from my system to be consistent ( I still start my stroke very low ) Problems with hitting (and driving) are common if you have to deal with remnants of technique used with inverted rubber. They can be persistent as well. The best thing is to build up your stroke for pips from scratch, in order to avoid existing reflexes. The goal is to get a very compact stroke, that starts close to the ball. First, watch good pips players drive and get convinced that you do have to start your stroke close to the ball. Then, start blocking, to find the correct angle, and gradually make this stroke more active, NOT by making your swing longer, but by putting more of your body behind it - that is, move hip and shoulder backwards, then forwards, so that your shoulder moves your arm, which makes the same movement (or almost) as when you block. This will increase the speed you put on the ball, and help you drive (and hit) through the ball, without putting spin on it. Technically, the worst mistake a pips player can make is driving or hitting with his arm instead of with his body. There was (maybe is?) an amazing Chinese penholder pips player, Tsuang tse Tung (Zhuang Zedong) who was three times world champion in the 1960s; he made it a point to develop the basic pips stroke according to Chinese boxing principles (Kung Fu). This is what you have to have in mind: a little man moving his shoulder a bit when touching a big man, who will be lifted clear off his feet and land metres away. If a little guy can do that to big fellow, imagine what you are capable of doing to a small plastic ball... Look at it this way: your arm may weigh a couple of kilo's, and will have an impact according to this mass, but your body will weigh about ten times as much and so will have an impact that is ten times greater. But in order to use your body instead of only your arm, you have to be close to the ball; that is why your footwork is so important. Be behind the ball, always, and hit with shoulder and hip.

Author:	j2sip [ 30 Nov 2016, 20:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
Quote: Then, start blocking, to find the correct angle, and gradually make this stroke more active, NOT by making your swing longer, Detailed instructions as always. But this part is an eye opener. I`ll work this out everytime I play from now on. I played again with a guy who`s got the spinniest topspin both BH and FH. I`m very satisfied with the 802-1 in blocking and hitting. Blocking with placement is the best among the SPs that I`ve tried(uranus and 802). I love it! It went best with the softy adidas hypertouch. The 563-1 will stay permanently in my backhand.

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ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDERS. https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23188	Page 5 of 7

Author:	al_111 [ 01 Dec 2016, 04:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
Kees wrote: Technically, the worst mistake a pips player can make is driving or hitting with his arm instead of with his body. Kees, thanks a lot for your articles and posts on the SP techniques. What do you think the optimal follow through should be in BH SP counterhit? I am in the process of transitioning from inverted, and while I feel that fixing the wrist was really essential, shortening the stroke makes me totally lose control. So, currently I make a follow through to the position of my lower arm perpendicular to the body (wrist movement is restrained compared to inverted stroke, blade angle is constant). In Wang Tao's instructional, he also seems to make a follow through. Probably, one of the reasons is the pip I use - a spinny one on a thick tensor sponge (Degu on 2.0 Waran sponge), but I would still very much appreciate your (and everyone else's) comment.

Author:	Kees [ 01 Dec 2016, 05:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
The backhand drive is different from the forehand drive in that it is less possible to use your body. There is a video on YouTube of Johny Huang playing Joo se Hyuk; also Huang playing Ding Song; against defenders you have more time, and you can see Huang doing a backhand smash a couple of times. It is clearly visible how he rotates his upper body (shoulder/hip) to get power (weight) behind that stroke. But normally you can't do that and your backhand stroke resembles a punch. Starting with your arm bent at about 90 degrees, the bat relatively closely behind the ball, you go forward and a little sideways/upwards (more if you want spin) until your arm is at about 160 degrees, so still bent a bit, but still before your body. You should not end up with a straight arm! That ruins your elbow and makes it hard to return to your ready position.

Author:	dariowai [ 02 Dec 2016, 15:33 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
Kees can you reccomend me a blade for my style (you can seee my videos in members videos) i buyed for 2017 fh spectol red 2,1 and for bh i use spectol 21 2,1.i used dhs cw-e blade.thanks

Author:	Kees [ 02 Dec 2016, 16:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
dariowai wrote: Kees can you reccomend me a blade for my style (you can seee my videos in members videos) i buyed for 2017 fh spectol red 2,1 and for bh i use spectol 21 2,1.i used dhs cw-e blade.thanks I'll PM you.

Author:	j2sip [ 06 Dec 2016, 11:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
My SP FH play has improved greatly over the weekend. Blocking has improved and overall reaction has become a lot faster compared to last month ago. I can read an opponent's move and react accordingly now (but not all the time ) and I can only thank Kees for his suggestions and insights on pips play. For fun, I glued a 755 0X on my wood blade and liked the result in my backhand. Is it because it plays similar to the 563-1 medium pips? It feels that way for me,although I have to do rolling shots more often with the 755. And since I'm playing close to table, I use the 755 for attacking and blocking only, no chopping.

Author:	LordCope [ 06 Dec 2016, 15:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
j2sip wrote: For fun, I glued a 755 0X on my wood blade and liked the result in my backhand. Beckons you, the dark side does. Intriguing, it is.

Author:	j2sip [ 06 Dec 2016, 22:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
LordCope wrote: j2sip wrote: For fun, I glued a 755 0X on my wood blade and liked the result in my backhand. Beckons you, the dark side does. Intriguing, it is. That sounds like a welcome. Thank you. I'm planning a Christmas gift for myself - cheap but I know it's gonna make me happy. Globe 979 0.6mm. In what aspect it is better than the 755? Should I get 0X instead? Or should I move the question to the LP section?

Author:	5hark [ 04 Jan 2017, 01:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
I'm really impressed, great topic. So, i want to try short pips on both sides of clipper. What cheap short pips should i try: 802, 802-40, etc...and what thickness should i use? Regards.

Author:	LordCope [ 04 Jan 2017, 02:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
5hark wrote: I'm really impressed, great topic. So, i want to try short pips on both sides of clipper. What cheap short pips should i try: 802, 802-40, etc...and what thickness should i use? Regards. Can't go wrong with 802 with orange sponge in 1.8 or 2.0. You might want to try something slightly different on one side, in which case I'd suggest perhaps Legend 105.

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Author:	Kees [ 04 Jan 2017, 04:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: ON REVIVING THE CLASSIC PIPS-OUT STYLE – FOR SHAKE-HANDE
5hark wrote: I'm really impressed, great topic. So, i want to try short pips on both sides of clipper. What cheap short pips should i try: 802, 802-40, etc...and what thickness should i use? Regards. I would suggest 802-40 on both sides (2.2mm on the forehand, 2.0 mm on the backhand). The Clipper is fast, so you would need some grip to be able to control the ball well. 802-1 in 2.0/2.2 mm on both sides would work too, but be more difficult to control. 802 would be quite difficult.