OOAK Table Tennis Forum

hi. sorry for my english language. i am a short pips player, blocker, counter hitter & etc... close to the table,(shake hander) but i want to change my style.
i want to be like he zhi wen,
and my question is, what are he zhi wen equipments?
and what rubber & blade specifications, i need??

rubber:
what specifications?
what short pimple rubber?
what sponge thikness?

blade:
what specifications my blade must have?
what chineas penhold blade?
softer or stiffer?
wood or composite?
fast or slow?
what blade thickness?
how many layers?
i think butterfly primorac (cs penhold) is ok for this style & blocking close to the table,
what is your idea?

thank u very much .

As far as I know He Zhiwen uses an old $10 DHS blade.

Do you plan to continue to play shake hand? If so the look at Johnny Huang who uses SP both sides.

listen that He Zhiwen uses Frienship/729 802 short pimples.

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http://stumpof.blogspot.com

It has been said that He Zhi Wen didn't have a racket when he came to Europe and he got a basic DHS racket similar to a 032 model in a local store (032 was not made the same recently and probably not even easily available anymore - The 032 from four years ago is 7.05 mm thick, solid and stiff).
Supposedly He used DHS 651 pips until the formula changed. Last I heard of he used a Friendship 802 top sheet glued to TSP super spin pips sponge.

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OSP Ultimate cpen
Acuda S1 Turbo
Hallmark Phoenix ox

i want to be penholder.
thanks for ur answers and for rubber( Frienship/729 802 short pimples).
my question is what combination is ok for blocking , counter hitting , mini looping close to the table ????
what sponge thikness?

what combination between blade and rubber is best for this? (soft with stiff, or soft with soft or etc...)

blade:

what specifications ?

softer or stiffer?

wood or composite?

fast or slow?

what blade thickness?

how many blade layers?

Fast Thick balsa blade, like TSP balsa/fiber 5.5 - 6.5mm, Joola R1 or 7 ply stiff wood ( like new 7.0 mm Clipper and clones are good for short pimples, blocking, smashing, but not so good for looping . It is only my IMHO, not 100% True and Law.

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http://stumpof.blogspot.com

Great site in that link, I think that is the best and most complete blade composition list I have seen.

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Stump, that's a great blog. Thanks!

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The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
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My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Elvis56, mynamenotbob!
Thank you. I tried! I am very pleased that you liked my blog. Come again!
Stump

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http://stumpof.blogspot.com

What thickness sponge he uses? From pics I'm thinking it's not 2.0?

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Vintage PF4 032 cpen
DHS 651 2.2mm
Currently messing with... DHS C7 1.0mm (a lot of fun!)

It is 2.0 mm, according to all accounts. Recently he changed from red 2.0 mm Friendshipn 802 to a black SP rubber.

General rules for equipment that will play well for his style: you need a combination of blade and rubber that will be rather insensitive to incoming spin, but at the same time will be capable of producing enough spin and grip to manipulate the ball.
On a classic stiff blade (7 ply) you need, therefore, a rather soft feel if you pick classic chinese pips (not very grippy) in 2.0 mm - that is He Zhiwen's combination.
If the blade has a hard feel (as many chinese 7 plies do) you'll need pips that are grippier, like Friendship 802-40 (soft sponge) or DHS 652 (soft sponge) or Globe 889-2 (less soft sponge, but slightly softer pips). A Globe 7ply blade with Globe 889-2 works well. A Friendship Bomb with Friendship 802-40 will also work well.
If you want to use even softer and grippier, European style SP, or pips like TSP Spinpips, you can use a blade that feels harder, like a very rigid 5 ply with Carbon; that would be the most expensive option.
But whatever combination you pick, you should always get a very stiff blade with a very even bounce (which rules out a lot of Balsa blades, by the way). Even a slightly flexible blade will cause problems with the angle of the bat at contact, especially at high impact.

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Without opponent, no match.

By the way, there is a thread somewhere on this forum about He Zhiwen's blade, in which it was established that his penhold is not a DHS 032, which is a 5 ply, but a DHS 7 ply. Still, the old 032 is so inflexible (with a soft feel) that it works well with classic SP. But that kind of blade isn't much around anymore.

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Without opponent, no match.

Thank you Kees! (That was my thread.)

In my opinion (as an average player who spent some time trying to hit like HZW), the Clipper Wood should serve as Kees' combo #1 ("classic stiff 7-ply with a rather soft feel"), and I thought a Mazunov (very hard and stiff, thick 5-ply with thick hard veneers) with 802-40 was great too.

Although I've never hit with a real DHS 08, I doubt there's anything wrong with the new, very cheap, DHS N08S, 7-ply basswood blade. It's thick and stiff, and its hardness is I think somewhere between a Mazunov and a Clipper. It's about $20. I think it gets no respect only because it costs so little. (I'd like to point out that only a very small percentage of reviewers are saavy with regard to this exact topic, and very few players seek this kind of feel in a blade.)

I originally sought the Mazunov to serve as an 08 substitute but it's harder. If you want the crispest razor-sharp aim, it has it, and that feels great. But I want to tell you what it felt like when I tried something softer (N08S and Clipper): it was quite a relief being able to apply more topspin. It's really noticeable.

Lastly (on this exact subject), my experience with short pips on a flexible blade (Mat Pro) is that it's a "handful" compared to the above. It's a much more active tool.

Don't miss the previous two posts by Kees. Good luck.

My feeling as well. The Mat Pro works in the hands of Gao Jun, but doing a lot of blocking with a flexible blade is probably only for those who can block every ball from the sweet spot (or other chosen spot) at will. IMHO that takes more eyesight, talent, skill, and hours of practice than is feasible for most mortals.

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OSP Ultimate cpen
Acuda S1 Turbo
Hallmark Phoenix ox

I agree. I think something similar applies to He Zhiwen and his equipment. Or any other pro, probably. Still, the combination Gao Jun chose to play with - a soft, spinny, disruptive thin-sponged SP combined with this oversized defensive blade - makes perfect sense. A hard-sponged classic SP in 1.5mm would block safer or easier, but would be hard to use for driving or for producing all kinds of spin, even on this relatively soft and flexible blade. In contrast, a soft-sponged 1.5 mm on it will pick up the ball, so driving (or pushing with heavy spin!) is much less hard. On top of that, this defensive blade (it is more like ALL- in speed, though) has an enlarged sweet-spot, which makes it easier to contact the ball effectively. I doubt if a normal-sized blade would work as well, even for Gao. Then, the relative insensitivity to incoming spin, and the disruption of the Challenger Attack SP, are much greater in 1.5 mm than in 2.0 mm, which makes things easier as well; but it would be hard to use this SP in 1.5mm on a stiff, fast blade with a hard feel. So the qualities of blade and SP really blend quite well, here - for her kind of game. If she would try and drive fast and block fast and hit hard with this set-up all the time, in He Zhiwen style, she would be much less accurate, I would think; often the ball would bottom out and the blade would flex, so her aim would be compromized and she wouldn't be able to vary the spin as she is now. Still, even if her set-up is cleverly chosen, it does take great touch and fantastic footwork to play like she does.

Pascal Tröger (not on Gao's level of play, but still a high-level player; there is a thread about him in the video section) is using a similar Butterfly SP, but max thick, on a similar blade, Nittaku Shake Defensive (I believe he changed to a blade of his own brand lately, but that one is also oversized, relatively slow, and flexible) in shakehand. He blocks and hits with it, having LP in OX on his backhand. Coach McAfee is using a similar set-up. I have played like that myself for a while. It isn't exactly easy, but not very hard either to block incoming fast balls with this forehand, as your basic speed is relatively low - you'll return the balls on the table, but accuracy isn't as high as with a stiff blade. Smashing with it is also relatively easy; but you will of course mostly be smashing easy balls, pop-ups caused by the LP. The pace of the game isn't high either, as the LP slows things down, so there is time to move around and get to the ball in order to contact it well. It is quite different, though, when you meet an opponent who consistently fires at your forehand, forcing you to return at high speed and high pace - accuracy drops appalingly, at least in my experience. (That is why the chicken-wing was invented... It helps to block one of those fast shots coming to your SP FH with the LP on your BH, as it breaks the rhythm and takes off some of the pace). And perhaps this is why dr.Neubauer, playing a similar style on a higher level meeting better opponents, always played SP in 1.5 mm on his forehand, even when the blades he used weren't as flexible or slow as most defensive blades.

So even if there are general rules about combining SP with blades, applying them one has to keep in mind that they need to be fine-tuned to individual needs and possibilities.

Edit (May 2016): I recently learned Gao played with 1.9 mm. So much for my analysis... More facts, less chatter!

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Without opponent, no match.