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 Post subject: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 22:31 
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"Hello, my name is Japsican and I'm an equipment junkie."

I have most recently been playing with Spinlord Zeitgeist LP OX on the backhand of the Aurora Hallmark (shakehand). I've been quite successful with this setup against various levels of competition.

Recently, I've wanted to experiment with SPs and because I've played with 802-40 OX on the RPB side of my Jpen, and I wanted to add a more proactive attacking element to my game. Thus, I thought I'd give it a whirl in the 2.0mm sponged version on the BH of my Aurora blade. The BH is DEF but plays more ALL- IMO.

After rubber cementing it, my initial impressions are that it is REALLY fast! Kind of hard to control on blocks and flat hits. This could be the speed glue effect of the RC, but I'm not sure. I had a lot of issues with keeping it on the table with pushes and blocks on hard shots. Didn't matter the angle.

Also, it's kind of heavy, and threw my forehand strokes off a bit until I got used to it, but still having to adjust.

Last, I know it's considered a "Grippy" SP, but I underestimated just how grippy it would be! People describe it as a SP that is "good for people transitioning from inverted." However, to me it playes EXACTLY like an inverted sheet. It's almost as spinny as my forehand rubber, XIOM Vega Europe. So, I don't really understand the benefit of even using this as a SP when it doesn't seem to mitigate spin in anyway. Once I stopped treating it like a pips out rubber, I then started to win some games. To me, may as well get a good quality inverted and just play 2 sided pips in.

I am SOOOOO tempted to just rip it off my paddle and put the Zeitgeist back on my blade! Tell me why I shouldn't? Talk me off the ledge! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 23:36 
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I've recommended this rubber in 1,8 to a fellow of mine and he's playing with it since. It's indeed an good transitioning rubber between inverted and SP. It enhances the flat shot IMO. With inverted a flat shot still carries some topspin in it. With the 802-40 it can be a real flat SP shot: no spin at all. It isn't as spinny as an inverted, though, although creating spin is still possible.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 23:37 
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I think you're just adjusting to the sponge.

You have experience with LPs and then 802-40 OX. Of course a sponged version of 802-40 will feel much faster and closer to inverted to you. It just takes time to adjust.

I've played a cheap inverted for a long time now and 802-40 in 2.0. They are different I can tell you that. Just test the topsheet. Take a ball and try to drag it across the surface. With 802-40, it doesn't take a lot of effort before the ball skids. But with inverted, it takes substantially more effort to drag the ball across the surface IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 23:52 
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suds79 wrote:
I think you're just adjusting to the sponge.


Me too. You might try 802-40 in 1.5mm. It will be significantly slower and easier to control. Flat hits are enhanced as well as short blocks and pushes. You can usually feel the wood behind most of your hits--more like your OX previous experience with that topsheet. 2.0 sponge always felt very bouncy to me no matter what I was doing with it. Good luck.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 03 May 2014, 00:59 
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Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
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Thanks everyone for your responses.

Yeah, I went with the 2.0 over the 1.5mm sponge due to the fact that my BH is a DEF blade. But I was surprised at the springiness and the weight. I'll give it some time.

I didn't feel like I could flat hit the ball at all....not through spin anyways. The rubber reacted significantly to the rubber, sending the ball errantly especially with side spin.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 03 May 2014, 01:09 
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suds79 wrote:
I think you're just adjusting to the sponge.

You have experience with LPs and then 802-40 OX. Of course a sponged version of 802-40 will feel much faster and closer to inverted to you. It just takes time to adjust.

I've played a cheap inverted for a long time now and 802-40 in 2.0. They are different I can tell you that. Just test the topsheet. Take a ball and try to drag it across the surface. With 802-40, it doesn't take a lot of effort before the ball skids. But with inverted, it takes substantially more effort to drag the ball across the surface IMO.


Suds, always value your opinion.

I know that from technical perspective, the 802-40 isn't as grippy empirically, however during play the "feel" is about as identical as inverted (to me). Especially when one is attempting a flat hit on spin or blocking a spinny ball. Just zipped to the side at the same angle as inverted. But as you said, perhaps I just need to adjust, play with it more, and wait for the Cement's affects to subside.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 03 May 2014, 02:08 
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Japsican wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses.

Yeah, I went with the 2.0 over the 1.5mm sponge due to the fact that my BH is a DEF blade. But I was surprised at the springiness and the weight. I'll give it some time.

I didn't feel like I could flat hit the ball at all....not through spin anyways. The rubber reacted significantly to the rubber, sending the ball errantly especially with side spin.


Yeah 802-40 will still react to the spin significantly. Particularly say you're hitting against backspin. You essentially have to do a normal loop as you would with inverted.

I did once play regular 802 in 1.5. Pretty substantial difference IMO. Can't attack as easy with it but certainly hitting through spin was much easier I found... Blocked better also.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 03 May 2014, 04:29 
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suds79 wrote:
Japsican wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses.

Yeah, I went with the 2.0 over the 1.5mm sponge due to the fact that my BH is a DEF blade. But I was surprised at the springiness and the weight. I'll give it some time.

I didn't feel like I could flat hit the ball at all....not through spin anyways. The rubber reacted significantly to the rubber, sending the ball errantly especially with side spin.


Yeah 802-40 will still react to the spin significantly. Particularly say you're hitting against backspin. You essentially have to do a normal loop as you would with inverted.

I did once play regular 802 in 1.5. Pretty substantial difference IMO. Can't attack as easy with it but certainly hitting through spin was much easier I found... Blocked better also.

What size sponge are you using with the 802-40?

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 03 May 2014, 07:20 
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Japsican wrote:
suds79 wrote:
Japsican wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses.

Yeah, I went with the 2.0 over the 1.5mm sponge due to the fact that my BH is a DEF blade. But I was surprised at the springiness and the weight. I'll give it some time.

I didn't feel like I could flat hit the ball at all....not through spin anyways. The rubber reacted significantly to the rubber, sending the ball errantly especially with side spin.


Yeah 802-40 will still react to the spin significantly. Particularly say you're hitting against backspin. You essentially have to do a normal loop as you would with inverted.

I did once play regular 802 in 1.5. Pretty substantial difference IMO. Can't attack as easy with it but certainly hitting through spin was much easier I found... Blocked better also.

What size sponge are you using with the 802-40?


2.0

The 35 deg version sold by zeropong

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 03 May 2014, 09:04 
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Me and my mates are mid level competition players and when I put a sheet of 802-40 2.0mm on, couldn't really tell much different to inverted.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 03 May 2014, 11:43 
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Yes it's like a low-throw inverted. However if you hit through the ball hard, you'll feel quite a difference. Yes agree with others that 1.5mm is a lot less bouncy and plays more like a short pimple even at much lower impact.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2014, 15:21 
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Where do you guys get 802-40 in 1.5mm from?
The thinnest sponge I found is 1.8.
Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2014, 09:08 
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ludo wrote:
Where do you guys get 802-40 in 1.5mm from?
The thinnest sponge I found is 1.8.
Thanks.

You can order it in anything from 0.6 to 2.2 from Cole's. He has a variety of sponges in different thicknesses.
http://colestt.com/pips-out.php

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2014, 09:21 
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SeniorRecPlayer wrote:
You can order it in anything from 0.6 to 2.2 from Cole's. He has a variety of sponges in different thicknesses. http://colestt.com/pips-out.php


Thanks SeniorRecPlayer!
I know that store but I was thinking more "factory made" with the 35deg soft sponge.

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 Post subject: Re: 802-40 issues
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2014, 10:51 
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802 with sponge is by far the best short pips for my BH, for the following reasons:
1. I found it good at recieving serves. Not very sensitive to incoming spin, allows you to chop most balls or spinny underspin push like an inverted rubber. Or you can bumb serves imparting speed and difficult position for opponent. Opponents often complain of getting weird or funny balls from such return.

2. Blocks are good giving back knuckle balls or sinking balls. Actve punch blocks are deadly specially against slow arching loops. A spin looper's nightmare.

3. This rubber is made for hitting! This is definitely an attacking rubber, with practice you can hit practically any ball that rises above the net, so you need to be fast on the table. Flat hits can be very fast. Hitting with an 802 on a fast blade is one of the joys of playng TT, sheer fun! You can also spin drive like an inverted. For an skilled user, no ball is safe from attack.

4. Very affordable. I dont like to use the word cheap for such a good rubber.

After several months to about a year, it looses some grip and sponge hardens somewhat. Then it becomes a more traditional non spinny SP. Now you gain more spin reversal and increase the funny ball quality of the rubber.

I went through several sheets and recommended 802 to several of my club mates. I now use double inverted but would not hesitate to buy a new sheet if I need one. Best SP for me!

(I have used 1.8 and 2.1 sponge)

Hope this helps

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