OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi everyone!
I didn't know where to put this topic and I choose to put it here as it is mainly short pimples but not only. Feel free to put the topic somewhere else if needed.

Last winter after trying long pimples to play as a modern defender, I gave up on that as I didn't have any coach and/or playing partner willing to help me to get better at it... I like that style of play...
I wanted to change my backhand rubber (reasons below) so I changed to short pimples, Friendship 802-40 (1.5mm) and tried my best. So I played the the second round of the season with short pimples and it went better than expected. We even managed to secure promotion.

My setup:
Blade: Donic Appelgren Allplay Senso V1
FH-Rubber: Joola energy x-tra (max.) --- (maybe changing to Donic X1 Gold or something similar but cheaper)
BH-Rubber: Friendship 802-40 (1.5mm)

My playing style:
My forehand is my strongest side, I loop, play short and I'm getting better at flicking the short balls.
My backhand is my weakest side, that was one reason I wanted to change (modern defender or something different). Before I played with my short pimples, I only played underspin balls and was good at blocking. Now, with the short pimples, I can be more aggressive and put more pressure on my opponent. I can flick short balls, do better returns, play short and also playing topspin (although they don't have that much spin).

If everything seems good, why am I writing here and hoping to get some help?
I'm looking for something more disturbing for my opponents on my backhand. My impression is that this short pimple makes me step up my game but doesn't disturb my opponents at all (or maybe a bit but not much).

So, here is my question to all of you Short-Pimple-Players & Masters, is there a short pimple rubber (or medium pimples or even anti-spin), that allows me to keep playing like I'm used to and is more difficult for the opponents, something more deceptive?
Some rubber I still can use for the returns (although I always change, to be a bit more unpredictable), short play, block and maybe attack?
I thought about other short pimples, or maybe medium pimples or even anti-spin.

What do you guys & girls think?

_________________
Actual equipment:
Blade: Donic Appelgren Allplay Senso V1||FH: Joola Energy x-tra (max)|| BH: Friendship 802-40 (1.5mm)

New/alternative/fun equipment:
coming soon

Well, I doubt that you can have it all. If you add disturbance you'll lose aggression. In general, long pips have much more disturbance than short and medium pips.
From my little experience with anti they are good for control and dealing with strong incoming loops, not for aggression.
You can try medium pips (Friendship 563\563-1 or Dawei 388C-1). You can still be aggressive with them and can create sinking balls. But don't expect from them funkiness of LPs otherwise you'll be disappointed.

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Setup 1: custom 7ply blade FH: 729 Legend 105 BH: 729 563
Setup 2: custom 7ply blade FH: 729 Dr Evil BH: 729 Dr Evil

Going up in pip length is a tradeoff as I'm sure you're aware. You lose grip which is necessary for conventional shots.

But I've heard the nittaku pimple-mini is still capable of some grip while getting LP effect if you use it just right.

Yeah, I'm aware of that..
I'll take a look at them!


I've heard about the Friendship 563/563-1. I'll check them out.

Which antis would you suggest?
What about other short pimples (other than the one mentioned by irenic)?

_________________
Actual equipment:
Blade: Donic Appelgren Allplay Senso V1||FH: Joola Energy x-tra (max)|| BH: Friendship 802-40 (1.5mm)

New/alternative/fun equipment:
coming soon

The only anti I've tried is Friendship 804 which is called sometimes half-anti as it's quite grippy comparing to other anti and is treated as the anti with high attacking potential. Being SP/MP player I would estimate its attacking potential less than 563. Neither I've found it to be significantly deceptive. You might like slippery anti which I suppose are good at attacking underspin. But you will have hard times when attacking topspin. In this case you have to be "reflective " not setting up your own attack.
For SP alternative to 802-40 I would suggest to search for pips which are taller and softer. Check Friendship 105 Legend, Giant Dragon 612 (turbo), Dr. Neubauer Pistol and Killer.

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Setup 1: custom 7ply blade FH: 729 Legend 105 BH: 729 563
Setup 2: custom 7ply blade FH: 729 Dr Evil BH: 729 Dr Evil

A lot of the effectiveness of using different rubber on one side comes from the contrast to inverted. Unless you're playing very experienced or well-practiced opponents they have to keep pausing to think which breaks the rhythm of their game. So it's harder to learn that different surface, but it's harder for the other guy, too.

Another rubber type to try is "raw" pips like 799, which are usually medium in geometry but used nonvulcanized rubber which play bit differently. I think 563 might also be raw pip.

I vote for,

Sorry, better rubber than 802 40 just not exist, for your style.

You may try to change the sponge to between 0.5 mm to 1.3 mm though, for flatter return.

Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

Why not play using double inverted? You can develop your backhand further and go for all out attack. I would suggest a soft rubber on your backhand ( Joola rhyzm 37 degrees, yasaka rakza 7 soft ). Anyway, it's your call. Keep playing!

_________________
Enjoy the game. It is a never ending learning experience once you play and keep the ball on that 45 sq ft of space or should I say half of that space.

Thanks for all these replies!
I'll take a look at all these suggestions.

Exactly, that's what I like about that. With my short pips or another I can make different plays as they're used to, which gives me an advantage. I like to play tactically, especially against stronger players, and prepare my forehand topspin.


haha, I choose these pips in first place because I knew people who where playing with them and were satisfied I'm playing 1.5mm
While I was playing a tournament last sunday, I saw some players with short pips (I presume) where the ball went down after blocking a topspin so that the opponent had to push the ball back or go down even more to play a topspin. Or could these be medium or long pips? He pushed normally and even attacked with them. I couldn't ask as I didn't find him afterwards...
Or could this be an issue with my technique? Because some players say that they don't "see" my short pips as I play almost the same strokes as it would be an inverted rubber?


I was playing this setup before:
Stiga Optimum SYNC || FH-rubber: Xiom Omega IV Europe (max) || BH-rubber: Xiom Omega IV Europe (2.0mm)
I liked the setup because of my forehand but it often lacked in control so that was a reason I switched to my actual blade.
My forehand rubber was then a Donic X1 Gold on max, played really well but I had to change (after 6 months playing ) it as I got to close to the table and somewhat broke the rubber one day before a championship match.. bad luck.. I'm thinking of getting back to that rubber although it's a bit more expensive than my actual one (and I get some discount for Joola stuff because of my club).

My backhand was a wreckage, I couldn't play the things I wanted except serves, push and block. Now it seems to get better as I also try to switch and loop with the inverted rubber. If I would change to inverted, it must be something grippy, with good control and not too fast but not too slow (lol) just to play the first topspin with more accuracy and then swing with my forehand loop for the point. I also wouldn't want to loose the tactical play I explained above but I presume it's just a matter of practice and having a coach helping you..

_________________
Actual equipment:
Blade: Donic Appelgren Allplay Senso V1||FH: Joola Energy x-tra (max)|| BH: Friendship 802-40 (1.5mm)

New/alternative/fun equipment:
coming soon

Friendship 799 is a suggestion I would second. Make it the Mystery version (it only comes in 1.8 mm); it is fast enough to attack with, is disruptive (far more than 802-40), will slow down the ball if you block without going forward, can produce significant spin (on flicks and serve-returns for instance) and will hit flat as well. It is a very good backhand rubber for your type of play, I think.
If 799 seems too slow, you could try Tibhar Speedy Soft pips; this is a soft short/medium pip that plays very easy, like a short one, and it is very disruptive, at least as much as the 799, and much faster.

As for your current set-up, a 802-40 in 1.5 mm should actually be disruptive as well. Possibly your stroke is too much like with inverted? Try to hit flat with it and see what happens. If you are not sure how to do this, just block doing nothing else, and as soon as that works for you, add some forward motion as well. Don't close the blade too much.

Anti is another option, but it requires a totally different technique. It would pay to learn to control short/medium pips first.

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Without opponent, no match.

there several way to achieve sudden drop ball (look alike). Choose your favourite.

- absorb opponent ball speed, either by loosening your grip on impact, or actually retrack the blade.
- hit as hard as possible the ball flat and let the air drag do the job.

Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

> I saw some players with short pips (I presume) where the ball went down after blocking a topspin so that the opponent had to push the ball back or go down even more to play a topspin. Or could these be medium or long pips?

If you chop block well with pips, especially raw pips, you can get enough backspin or at least squirminess that less than higher level opponents will play the return safe.

> My backhand was a wreckage, I couldn't play the things I wanted except serves, push and block.

You play close to the table, right? Non-chopping pips work best if you take the ball before it drops.

If your blade is appropriate for it...you might want to think about a close to the table LP as irenic suggested.... you'll get disturbance, reversal. It's not modern defense chopping, and may suit your syle.

With the caveat that close to the table blocking strokes with LP take some time to cultivate and acclimate to.... some guys are really good at attacking with their LPs, and some people instead learn to twiddle well and hit and block with inverted. In our videos section, look at Stefan Kostadinovic... he's a twiddler who will hit with both his LP and Inverted on the backhand side.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=28516&start=15

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

I'll check the 799 out, how is its speed compared to my actual rubber?
It could be my technique because today I tried to play as you said and I got more of the wanted effect. I'll continue on my next practice.


Thanks for the tips! So go a bit back on the movement or go against the ball.


Like Kees said, it could be my technique as I'm closing the blade too much, I should try to open more the blade to get the desired effect. I'm trying it out during my practice.
I play close to mid-distance, more often on mid-distance.


Thannks for the forum post!
I tried that before I went to my actual pips. If all of your tips don't work out or if I can get the desired effect, I might get back to that.
Are there some videos or topics (I'm also going to look for them) that show how to play (block, topspin/hit, ...) with short pips?

_________________
Actual equipment:
Blade: Donic Appelgren Allplay Senso V1||FH: Joola Energy x-tra (max)|| BH: Friendship 802-40 (1.5mm)

New/alternative/fun equipment:
coming soon

If you play from mid-distance pips aren't nearly as effective. The most effective stroke/shot-variations are when the ball comes up off the bounce into the pips at some angle. Like the SP block, where you can take off spin with more subtle and easier motion than with inverted.