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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2017, 14:07 
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802-40 is an okay rubber.. not particularly deceptive but easy to play with and easy enough to smack with. Little too spinny for my taste. It's a lot better boosted, if you're into that

TSP pretty much makes the best pips-out rubbers, not sayin other companies don't make good pips, but you really can't go wrong with TSP. Spectol and Spectol 21 are great pure short-pips, not really any inverted-like qualities. Awesome for hitting through spin, spinny enough when you have to spin the ball, blocks kill a lot of spin and are easy to place, and chops well. I've tried a million SP's, and Spectol is the best for just about everything imo. Not a fan of Spectol Speed though, very heavy and dense

I do boost my Spectol, but it plays well without boost too. I mainly do it to get a little extra spin, which for sure is necessary for the new ball. Spinny pips play too much like inverted for me, so the only other option is pippy pips and a really soft springy sponge. With the old ball I'd use a harder sponge


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2017, 14:14 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
This is an interesting view. I've heard arguments made that the new ball is a big disadvantage for short pips players because it's harder to overcome the spin on the heavier ball, and so players have to use the short pips to loop, which kind of defeats the purpose of short pipsMy own experience working with multi-balls of the 40 and 40+ variety is, indeed, that it's easier to hit through the smaller ball, while with the large ball, your timing has to be exactly right. (I use short pips on my forehand and long pips on backhand but also twiddle to finish off loose balls that come to my backhand.) I'd be curious to hear other views of short pips players and how they've adjusted to the new ball and the differences they see between the use of short pips with the old ball vs. the new ball.


Toottallly agree. New ball is bad news for short pip players. And yeah, timing on counters and general shots is less forgiving than the old ball. Flat hits are also a lot slower, so people that step back from the table against SP have a way easier time staying in the point. And since the ball spins less, the difference between dead balls and loops is less pronounced.. again makes it easier for the opponent. Aaiaiaii


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 08:57 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
watching this topic with interest... :up:

is there a difference in SP for FH and for BH...is there a general rule to play with a FH SP that is more grippy so you can spin the ball, and more "disturbing" for BH, closer to MP?


Nah, there's no "rule", written, unwritten, or otherwise haha. It's all about what you want out of your game.Typically people find that its a lot easier to use a bigger, more powerful stroke on forehand compared to backhand, so yeah more spin would help the consistency when you're substantially upping the power in a stroke. More spin just allows you to attack a wider variety of balls, and to use a little more power. If your game doesn't require that, then you don't either.. Zhan Jian and Mattias Karlsson use very spinny SPs on FH, whereas Li Jia Wei (and me too) used Spectol 21 on FH, which is definitively less spinny but wayyyy awesome at flat hitting anything and still spins well enough.

It's more natural for people to punch block/hit on the BH, so it makes sense to use something less spinny, but I mean if you're a wristy, flippy, flicky kind of BH player that can generate a lot of spin, go more for something that spins a lot like 802-40 or TSP Superspinpips... I've never seen/hit heavier spin on service returns than when a dude serves heavy backspin, and a good short pip player can flip it with spin, continuing the opponents backspin into topspin and adding on more of their own spin, the kick on the ball is craaaazzyyyy


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 09:17 
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genrel001 wrote:
I'm currently using 802-40 on my BH. I play mainly defense; blocking, chop blocking and chopping close to mid table. What modern SP can you recommend as an alternative? One that suites the 40+ era.


If you're mainly a defensive guy, you for sure want something less spinny/spin-reactive and maybe less fast than 802-40..

Especially for chop-blocking and chopping, man, that's exactly what spinny pips are NOT designed for lol

RITC 802 is actually a much better rubber for that stuff, but you can't really get it on good sponges that play well without booster. 802 on the 35deg supersoft sponge is a really solid rubber for all around SP play, namely blocking/hitting and chopping, less of a pure attacking SP. regular 802 on that sponge(boosted) is easily my second favorite SP, whether on my chopper setup or attacker setup... Very controllable and spinny enough, and excellent at straight up flat hitting. Just wouldn't use for FH

Probably one of the most popular SPs, time tested and used by tonnssss of professionals over the decades is TSP Spectol.. cool thing about it is that unlike most other rubbers, it's been used equally as much by attacking players as by choppers.. For suuuure the best SP for totally all around players, cause it does everything well. It doesn't have that much spin, but blocking and chopping are a total breeze, and hitting through heavy loops is easier than with many other SPs. I would just go for the regular sponge, the 21 sponge is more for aggressive attacking players. And Spectol plays best for a predominantly defensive game in either the 1.4~1.7 thickness or the 1.7~1.9thickness... the 1.4~1.7 more if you chop a lot.. 1.7~1.9 better for passive/active blocking I'd say, still v good for chopping.. max sponge better for just active aggressive table game, prob not what you want.

I think everyone who's interested in anything about SPs should try a sheet of Spectol at least once, cause it's a pure short pip, and even if it's not everyone's favorite rubber, it's the best benchmark SP to use to figure out what characteristics you want out of an SP, then move on from there.
It can do ANY shot SPs are capable of with fair proficiency, which is why it's so important to try. If someone doesn't have a lotta exp. with SPs, they might try them out and think some shots aren't possible, and then never learn how properly to execute them (flat hit, lift "loop", drive with spin, block, chop, etc). If you use an all-around SP until you have a good understanding of how SP's work, you can branch off n use equipment that maximizes the potency of your favorite shots, if you're willing to accept the compromise of other shots being tougher to execute


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 20:00 
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tnx Bizzoss9000...

i recently bought Dr.N Terminator and will glue it today to see how it goes...

i am currently a slick anti player but thinking of switching to SP to be more diverse and offensive...i am using my BH only for a preparation of my FH, and my main weakness is returning of the serves...

you can see my stile in my blog and tell me maybe what SP do you think will suit me more, some defensive thinner one, or some offensive thicker one...

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 07:42 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
tnx Bizzoss9000...

i recently bought Dr.N Terminator and will glue it today to see how it goes...

i am currently a slick anti player but thinking of switching to SP to be more diverse and offensive...i am using my BH only for a preparation of my FH, and my main weakness is returning of the serves...

you can see my stile in my blog and tell me maybe what SP do you think will suit me more, some defensive thinner one, or some offensive thicker one...


Dyou have an approximate USATT rating? Doesnt matter specifically, but depending on your level certain styles might be easier/more accessible than others..

But based on what you say about your style, it sounds like youd be best off actually using a grippy long pip with 1.0~1.5mm sponge.. its really easy to hit straight through a wide variety of balls with LP if they're grippy and enough sponge.. also LP is pretty much always much slower than SP, helps very much for effective serve returns. If you're just trying to set up a FH attack, the slow pace LP gives you more time to set up your shot, too..

If you're set on short pips, definitely go for one that's not too spinny, definitely not tensor, and shoot for maybe a 1.8mm sponge.. 1.5 is a little too thin for most players unless you chop a lot, the little bit of extra sponge gives you enough extra spin and dwell to control the ball better... but I wouldn't go higher than 1.8 if you're mainly defensive with the pips.. 2.0 is good if you're kinda 50/50 attack/defense, max is mainly if you're trying to attack every ball at all times


Btw ive never used a Dr. Neubauer rubber so idk exactly if that's the right pip for you... but from what I hear it's quite insensitive to spin and blocks n hits pretty straight/dead... Should work as well as anything based on your style of play.. more control on serve returns, and funky blocks that may help to better set up weak returns from your opponent for you to kill


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 21:27 
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i played before with ox lp, chop blocking style, so i can always return to that, but i want to try sp and be a little more offensive...

terminator is ox, i tried it yesterday...it is interesting rubber, surprisingly fast w/o a sponge...when you block it and play an offensive shot the ball is going in a straight line very nasty for the opponent...need more testing though...

my matches are on my blog and channel, so there you can asses my level maybe...

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=30617
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzuemYtNzpI

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 03:32 
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Bizzoss9000 wrote:
Dyou have an approximate USATT rating?


I played with Iceman and would put his rating in the 2000 USATT range.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 05:36 
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I find nathanso's post very interesting. Particularly that you get what you pay for in SPs. I'm not by any means saying that's not true. But I think it would be interesting to see what some well known SP players play with just to compare.

Mattias Karlsson - Verified from another board with a pic from January of 2017 plays with Yasaka Rakza PO. An expensive rubber by any standards. $52 on paddle palace.

Chen Song - a penholder playing in a high level British league in the fall was said to use 802-1. But he's an older player and could have been using that all this time or used it at one time. Can't confirm this.

Anybody know what He Zhi Wen uses? I heard Haifu Dolphin (a $30 spiny pip) but was never able to confirm.

I only ask because for a long time I played 802-40 on a 2.0 air 30 deg super soft sponge. I liked it but felt it lacked power on my clipper classic. Wanting an upgrade, I tried TSP Spectol Red. I didn't like it but I suspect that's because that rubber was so much faster in speed. I should note that the Spectol has pips much smaller than 802-40 (even smaller than 802s) and I suspect that the spin capability might not have been as great. A true short pip I suppose.

PS - Nathanso. What are you playing with now by the way?

---- Post edit: I might have to rethink my take on TSP Spectol Red. ---

After sitting on the shelf about a month. It was seriously only with with a week. I decided to give it another go. It's still fast but I think is pretty nice. Perhaps some of the tune effect has slightly worn off and it was simply too fast for my skill level or what I was use to but I do like what it brings to the table. I will give it another go and see what I think. I think it definitely leans towards your classic style of pip play. It's just really really fast so be warned. My sheet I think had like 44 on the sponge and it's tuned so keep that in mind.

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 14:56 
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Bizzoss9000 wrote:
genrel001 wrote:
I'm currently using 802-40 on my BH. I play mainly defense; blocking, chop blocking and chopping close to mid table. What modern SP can you recommend as an alternative? One that suites the 40+ era.


If you're mainly a defensive guy, you for sure want something less spinny/spin-reactive and maybe less fast than 802-40..

Especially for chop-blocking and chopping, man, that's exactly what spinny pips are NOT designed for lol

RITC 802 is actually a much better rubber for that stuff, but you can't really get it on good sponges that play well without booster. 802 on the 35deg supersoft sponge is a really solid rubber for all around SP play, namely blocking/hitting and chopping, less of a pure attacking SP. regular 802 on that sponge(boosted) is easily my second favorite SP, whether on my chopper setup or attacker setup... Very controllable and spinny enough, and excellent at straight up flat hitting. Just wouldn't use for FH

Probably one of the most popular SPs, time tested and used by tonnssss of professionals over the decades is TSP Spectol.. cool thing about it is that unlike most other rubbers, it's been used equally as much by attacking players as by choppers.. For suuuure the best SP for totally all around players, cause it does everything well. It doesn't have that much spin, but blocking and chopping are a total breeze, and hitting through heavy loops is easier than with many other SPs. I would just go for the regular sponge, the 21 sponge is more for aggressive attacking players. And Spectol plays best for a predominantly defensive game in either the 1.4~1.7 thickness or the 1.7~1.9thickness... the 1.4~1.7 more if you chop a lot.. 1.7~1.9 better for passive/active blocking I'd say, still v good for chopping.. max sponge better for just active aggressive table game, prob not what you want.

I think everyone who's interested in anything about SPs should try a sheet of Spectol at least once, cause it's a pure short pip, and even if it's not everyone's favorite rubber, it's the best benchmark SP to use to figure out what characteristics you want out of an SP, then move on from there.
It can do ANY shot SPs are capable of with fair proficiency, which is why it's so important to try. If someone doesn't have a lotta exp. with SPs, they might try them out and think some shots aren't possible, and then never learn how properly to execute them (flat hit, lift "loop", drive with spin, block, chop, etc). If you use an all-around SP until you have a good understanding of how SP's work, you can branch off n use equipment that maximizes the potency of your favorite shots, if you're willing to accept the compromise of other shots being tougher to execute

Hmmmm.... From what I currently understand, Spectol should actually be less spin reactive and spinny than my sucky BH rubber that I chop with; combine that with the fact that most defenders who use Spectol have 1.4-1.6 mm sponge whereas I use a 2.0 mm sponge. Therefore, as I understand it, if I experiment with Spectol, that's one step closer to a more anti-like SP rubber as opposed to a grippy SP rubber. I really wanted to try out Super SpinPips Chop 2 too... The EJ is starting to grow inside of me, HELP

EDIT: Just to clarify, I am inspired by the likes of Joo, Yuto Muramatsu, and Satoshi Aida (I recently discovered this guy on one of the other threads, and he plays very similar to me when I'm having one of my good days, although my chopping looks nothing like his and whereas he can pretty much does a little bit of everything, I will never block and lob the ball. As a matter of fact, I try to play like all 3 players combined, but it's hard... combine that with the fact that I'm probably the equivalent of 500 USATT :P)

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 15:50 
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Aside of Spectol (from which, I'd guess, most players are talking about Spectol 21, not the older Spectol) there's also Stiga Radical. Some also 'love' DR.N Killer (pro).
For more defensive styles I'd suggest medium to long pips anyway, Kokutaku 110 (actually in 1mm on fast/hard blade) does a pretty nice job in chopping, McAfee-style chop-smash etc while still feeling very short-pip like.

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 23:27 
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conradyoung wrote:
Bizzoss9000 wrote:
Dyou have an approximate USATT rating?


I played with Iceman and would put his rating in the 2000 USATT range.



is that good? :lol:

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 01:14 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
conradyoung wrote:
Bizzoss9000 wrote:
Dyou have an approximate USATT rating?


I played with Iceman and would put his rating in the 2000 USATT range.



is that good? :lol:



LOL dude your forehand is insane


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 01:17 
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I recently changed back to short pips after a year-long experiment with inverted. I got some of the best training available in the U.S., but I feel more comfortable with short pips. Inverted has so many advantages when it comes to topspin attack, but my first days playing ping pong were with dead recreational rubber and I think the mentality has stuck with me.


Last edited by conradyoung on 20 May 2017, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 01:59 
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suds79 wrote:

PS - Nathanso. What are you playing with now by the way?


I'm using Nittaku Beautry short pips in 2.0mm on a stiff 7W+2C blade. This rubber costs $44.95 from Paddle Palace.


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