OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi, I've received my sheet of Spinpips Red from haggisv.

I know want I want to test this rubber for, but to make any review helpful to forum members, what tests would you like on this sheet of Spinpips red. I have a lot of sheets of SP's for direct comparison if that would help, but which ones?

Here for starters are some close up photo's of the Spinpips.

Looking straight down on the pimples topsheet: Tops of the pimples almost look like brush strokes in oils. Interesting for me is that there appears to be a weft and warp approach. You can also see the top is thinner than the base.



Rubber top sheet base: Same view as before but this time I've added a light source to illuminate the rubber base and focused on that base rather than the tips of the pimples. That smooth looking rubber base is anything but smooth when you look closely. Reminds me of the images of the surface of the plastic ball I took a while back. Also look how ragged the edges of the pimples are. Good job the ITTF not mention the tips of the pimples have to be circular. Probably the result of how the rubber is cut. Notice again how the base is quite a bit bigger than the top of these pimples - wonder how that compares with other pimples. (I can measure and compare if people are interested)


This is the side on view. The rubber is being partially held by my hand here which is why there is a tiny bit of vibration with has affected the focus but you can still clearly see the shape of the pimples from the side and how they are conical up to near the top when the sides of the pimples suddenly become perpendicular to the base. You also get some idea of how dense the sponge is .


I will be trying out some new testing methods with this sheet of rubber but like I said earlier, no point testing stuff that people aren't interested in so please share your ideas of what would be useful for you to see tested. It will be a video review as that's what I enjoy doing most.

Cheers, and thanks to haggisv for shipping this rubber over to me free of charge.
ps haggisv has laid no conditions on the review - I wouldn't do it if there were conditions. So, if I think it's overpriced crap, I'll say that - diplomatically of course. Likewise if it seems a great rubber, I'll say that too.

I also recently received a sheet of black TSP Spinpips RED 1.8-2.0mm short pips rubber from haggisv and have started using it. I'll post my findings here unless there's call for a separate topic. I've already added its measurements to the Rubber Mass Database, and I had an initial hit with it at my local club last night, though most of the time was spent trying to match it to an appropriate blade. More later.

Great pictures Debater!

Yes there are obviously rough tipped pimples, and the closeup does make it look 'rough'

I had always assumed these pips came out of a mold, but it's certainly possible they cut them somehow afterwards.

The pores on the sponge actually look bigger than I expected... that's a real nice closeup.

The things that people ask me most often, when in interested in short pips, are
1. How fast are they?
2. Is it a spinny pimple rubber (which can be good or bad, depending on what you're after)?
3. How reactive is it to (incoming) spin?

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Hi,

I'd love to see a comparison to Raystorm. If you aren't familiar with that, 802-40 would do.
Particularly, how much spin you can impart, sensitivity to spin, speed, and bounciness at low and high speed.

_________________
Regards,
Jonathan

Butterfly Raystorm 2.2
Tibhar EL-S
RL Australis

Here's the first installment of my review on TSP Spinpips RED 1.9mm short pips.

I've now used TSP Spinpips RED (1.9mm black) for three sessions at my local TT club, testing it on various blades and against two other short pips: TSP Super Spinpips 21 Offensive Sponge 1.9-2.1, and Nittaku Beautry 2.0mm. In one test I put TSP Spinpips RED on one side and Super Spinpips 21 Offensive Sponge on the other side of the same blade. This clearly demonstrated that Spinpips RED was crisper feeling and 30-40% faster (in my estimation) than the old version. My training partner that night commented that with the old version he had ample time to respond but with the new version he was rushed.

Both Spinpips blocked equally well, easily disarming incoming topspin and allowing precise placement on the return. As for generating spin, the new Spinpips RED seemed to generate more spin than the old version, particularly on serve. It was common for opponents to have difficulty with service return when I was using Spinpips RED, due both to the increased speed and also increased spin. Spinpips RED can really get the ball jumping off the second bounce on serve.

For delivering topspin drives, Spinpips RED can generate decent spin but it's nowhere close to what inverted can generated, as expected. Spinpips RED proved to be very consistent when delivering topspin balls and was thus easy to rally corner-to-corner with inverted players who appreciated (needed?) its topspin to have some bite to the ball they were counter-hitting. Throw angle was noticeably higher than from my Nittaku Beautry, probably due to TSP Spinpips RED's horizontal pips vs Beautry's vertical pips. One player who was very familiar with my play with Beautry commented that Spinpips RED was too much like inverted and didn't pose much of a challenge to return, at least while I was hitting topspin drives.

Compared to 802-40 (max, black) Spinpips RED is faster and more consistent. Really no comparison between these two!

Flat-hitting with Spinpips RED was excellent. The SP was able to deliver very fast, very accurate balls time after time. I'd put it on par with Beautry in this regard, and Beautry is the best I've used to date.

I can't chop with SP so I didn't try, though this probably isn't the best SP for chopping.

At this point I'm not sure if I'll drop Beautry for Spinpips RED. Spinpips RED offers more range for varying spin, and its spin on serve is a real weapon. But it doesn't generate nearly as many hit-into-the-table errors as Beautry does with its less spinny but equally fast drives. More testing is needed, and I'll post back where when I've learned more.

Thanks for the review so far.

Was there any bottoming out when hitting hard?
How fast is it on the slow shot?
How was pushing?

_________________
Regards,
Jonathan

Butterfly Raystorm 2.2
Tibhar EL-S
RL Australis

Here's another installment of my review on TSP Spinpips RED 1.9mm short pips.

I now consider myself switched from my beloved Nittaku Beautry to Spinpips RED. While Beautry is, perhaps, 20-30% faster, it simultaneously has less spin on serve yet more reactivity when blocking loops; two key rubber properties that I base my game on. Spinpips RED's spin on serve is causing opponents all manner of problems as the ball often leaps unexpectedly off the second bounce. I'm learning that exaggerated brushing of the ball during service is what produces these devastating serves. Blocking loops with Spinpips RED is downright boring as it easily takes spin off the ball and quickly directs it back to where I want to place it. I've detected no bottoming out. Its linearity is good on slow, touch shots (unlike others I've tried like JOOLA Express Ultra), and since I never push with FH I can't comment on that.

It sounds like you are using Spinpips Red as a forehand rubber. How do you think it would suit the BH with inverted on the FH on an all or all+ balsa TSP blade. Would it be a bit too fast for controlled blocking and slow loops against back spin. I tried Spinlord Waran and found it too hard and fast for the BH i.e. definitely more of a FH hitting short pip, whilst 802-40 was slower and spinnier but lacking touch on slow blocks/pushes

I would never recommend a balsa blade for any kind of pips-out rubber, especially short pips. In my experience, short pips requires a stiff, solid blade such as a 5-ply or 7-ply wood blade with OFF or better speed and excellent feel (carbon is fine provided blade feel is still present). Not an easy thing to find! BBC's 'Ghost' series is just such a blade (purpose-designed for pips-out rubbers) which is what I've been using. The latest Ghost blade I'm using has a thick mahogany core which, after testing numerous core woods, provides the best feel, by far.

I don't play SP on BH so I can't comment.

I use SP's on my backhand and spent a few years using a Hallmark Enigma blade - an oversized balsa blade designed by Hallmark for use with pimples. I liked it. However, I don't like the TSP Balsa 6.5 I have for SP's.

In my experience, there's a lot goes in to a blade which can impact on it's performance and it goes beyond what type of "core" it has.

I see from prior posts that your Hallmark Enigma is 11mm thick and has what the manufacturer calls a "double Balsa core" (perhaps two plys of Balsa wood?) I've never seen or used this blade but every Balsa-cored blade I've used (dozens) suffers from the same problem: Non-linearity when flat-hitting, with the upper end being touchy and uncontrollably fast. I call the effect 'catapult' because the ball tends to launch unexpectedly. The catapult effect worsens as the thickness of the Balsa core increases. If Hallmark managed to tame this aspect of Balsa with their design on the Enigma then props to them! I'll also add that SP on FH requires an altogether different (higher) level of control than SP on BH, with the 'window' opening over the net being very small and requiring great precision. But this thread is about Spinpips RED, so I digress..

This rubber sounds pretty much perfectly what I'm looking for.

I had the new Spectol Red in 2.0 and loved the speed & sponge & feel but hated that topsheet. Was way to classic for that added speed for me. I needed a little more spin to control it and I'm well use to 802-40 so Spectol, which is far more classic even compared to 802 was a rough adjustment for me.

I can't wait to pick this up. I think it'll work out perfectly.

_________________
Stiga Clipper Classic
FH - TSP Spectol Red 2.0
BH - Dawei 388D-a 1.5

I remember that, for Re-Impact blades, they address this "catapult" problem by suggesting that people use thinner sponge with their blades. Perhaps it might work for other balsa blades? Use 1.5mm or 1.7mm sponge instead of 2.0mm or 2.2mm? Might work with pips as well.

Iskandar

I'd have thought a thinner sponge would bring more of the blade's properties in to play so thinner sponge would "emphasise" the springy effect of Balsa, not dampen it.

From what I remember of the Re-Impact materials that have been posted, they say that the blade itself provides some of the spring that normally comes from the sponge, so you don't need as much sponge. In fact, using full sponge thickness would be akin to having too much sponge. I'm just repeating what they say, I don't have any direct experience nor do I have any data.

I suppose Haggis might corroborate this (since he uses Re-Impact blades).

Iskandar