OOAK Table Tennis Forum

The spinniest short pips act more like inverted to the receiver as you don't give a really flat ball or much variation on blocks so you get fewer errors on your opponents part. With one of the less spinny short pips or thinner sponge you can vary the spin a bit more and it's harder for them to time the ball.

Of course, the first question is does it work for you?

_________________
-- Andrew

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Armstrong Attack 3 40 1.2 red
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.8 black

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.5 red
AiR Scirocco SR inverted 1.8 41 sponge black

Butterfly Mazunov
Friendship Legend 105 1.9 black
AiR Classique F3 OX red

Do tell me more about the thin sponge effect.

I have played against some players (with spinny loops) who did not even seem bothered by my 802-40 pips. This makes me consider 802 or 802-1 (since seems to be your favorite).

Any inputs for this?

Of course this always goes back in the end to a personal choice, of course.

_________________
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR Non-WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB

When I switched from inverted I used the spinniest pips and the thickest, softest sponge I could find as it was an easier transition. So I think it makes sense to play with them to start with, and maybe later as well.

However they do let you continue to play with inverted type strokes, rather than using the strengths of pips, which I see as three:

1) Creating flat balls on blocks and kills which are hard to block
2) Relative insensitivity to spin, allowing you to hit through spin
3) Continuing (rather than stopping) spin, so instead of pushing, you'll flip, instead of stopping sidespin, you'll send it back to your opponent.

Less spinny pips may cause more trouble for your opponents, assuming that you are as effective attacking with them. Long pips players have a different style, medium pip players are inbetween.

Less sponge will require you to pay more attention to using the opponent's spin against them and (after you adjust to them) give you more control on blocks, serves and pushes. The ball will also be flatter and the pips will be less sensitive to spin. With a fast blade and stroking through the ball, you really don't need a very thick sponge to hit hard.

There are many top players who use very spinny pips (like Liu Guoliang who used Spin Pips, maybe Clippa, then 802-40) but there are others who use less spinny (like He Zhi Wen who uses 802 unglued). Look at the differences, Liu had perhaps the greatest serve in the history of the game, while He blocks opponents down.

Toshio Tasaki uses the fairly spinny Yasaka T-Original heavily glued, while Johnny Huang used Spin Pips and now uses Spectol also glued.

I like 802-1 in that (at least in black) it is still spinny enough unglued for my forehand serves. 802 I felt I had to glue for it to be spinny enough. Might be worth trying one of those on your backhand at some point.

_________________
-- Andrew

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Armstrong Attack 3 40 1.2 red
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.8 black

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.5 red
AiR Scirocco SR inverted 1.8 41 sponge black

Butterfly Mazunov
Friendship Legend 105 1.9 black
AiR Classique F3 OX red

Is spectol a spinny pip or less spinny?

I am considering 802 or 802-1 in the future to maximize the pips effect.

With 802-40, I am tempted to use inverted strokes (and spin does help so much in landing the ball within the table.) But the option to spin does give more possibilities.

Opponents have been amazed on how well I have been playing recently and have been wondering where I had been "training in secret" or who has been coaching me. The truth is that I have simply adjusted to pips play and have blended them with my old inverted strokes. Of course, they never seem to remember that I stopped playing for 5 years until I restarted 3 months ago (with pips too at that).

_________________
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR Non-WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB

Having a break probably helps, but muscle memory takes a while to go away even so. Give 802-1 a try sometime to compare to your 802-40. No big rush, work on your own consistency first.

Spectol is like a faster version of Clippa, and is a little less spinny. I find it a bit hard to control, but it sure is effective.

_________________
-- Andrew

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Armstrong Attack 3 40 1.2 red
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.8 black

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.5 red
AiR Scirocco SR inverted 1.8 41 sponge black

Butterfly Mazunov
Friendship Legend 105 1.9 black
AiR Classique F3 OX red

Working on present setup seems to be more logical until I get the consistency in using pips.

I have been twiddling to determine which side feels better especially in the FH quick hitting. 802-40 with Dr. Zheng has a more solid feel on the FH which is feels good for snappy flat hits but Clippa feels "easier" to spin with.

Does it seem more logical to have the 802-40 for FH smashes and hits while BH could use some spin?

_________________
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR Non-WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB

Has anyone tried the Dr. Zheng Orange medium hard sponge?

_________________
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR Non-WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB

i am now switching from inverted to DHS 652 on my backhand and what thickness do you suggest to begin with? i would like to flathit every ball regardless of the spin

I've got a sheet and plan to try it this week.

_________________
-- Andrew

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Armstrong Attack 3 40 1.2 red
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.8 black

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.5 red
AiR Scirocco SR inverted 1.8 41 sponge black

Butterfly Mazunov
Friendship Legend 105 1.9 black
AiR Classique F3 OX red

Either 2.0 or 1.8 should work fine.

You can't completely ignore spin with short pips, it will take some adjusting to. Take a look at the articles on the pips website about using them.

_________________
-- Andrew

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Armstrong Attack 3 40 1.2 red
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.8 black

Jack Miller custom Chinese style penhold
Giant Dragon 8228-FC 1.5 red
AiR Scirocco SR inverted 1.8 41 sponge black

Butterfly Mazunov
Friendship Legend 105 1.9 black
AiR Classique F3 OX red

Is it closer to 802-1 or 802-40? I guess the sponge type may be a factor too.

_________________
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR Non-WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB

Hi amareur101,
I suspect the reason why double inverted players are not having problems with the 802-40 is you are using inverted strokes.
The advantage of 802-40 is the ability to just flat hit through balls. You don't try to make spinny loops, you want SPEED. More open bat, go into the ball and hit hard. Don't drop the hand and come up on the ball, start just below ball height and "Hit" it.
You cannot completely ignore spin. Like agooding said, you still have to read it but it is much less noticable. You can't play easy with 802-40, you have to be very aggressive. Speed kills! At least that is how 802-40 worked for me.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

Hookshot,

Yes, I have been trying to hit through the ball. It just takes time to transition from inverted strokes. With enough training sessions, I hope to maximize the pips effects.

Some of my flat hits have hit the net after 3 strokes in a rally. I suspect I am rushing to hit the ball on the rise and not waiting to let it rise just above net height.

_________________
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR Non-WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB

I experienced the same -- I suspect it's an inverted timing thing. I hope to learn the proper stroke and timing as well...

_________________
Avalox P500. Sriver EL.
Flickr

Continuing the discussion on sponge thickness, I was watching a tutorial by Carl Prean on pips techniques and he recommended using different sponge thicknesses.

He uses Hallmark Magic Pips with 2.0 mm on FH and 1.0 mm BH.
Prean twiddles a lot (and quite skillfully) to vary the speed of the return which cause some problems for opponents. The return ball usually hits the net when Prean uses the 1.0 mm sponge.

Has anyone tried this approach? Any observations?

By the way, after the week of playing with Avalox 700 I have to state that I am very satisfied with its performance with SP although I had to get used to the weight initially.

As for sponge, I have decided to go back to using 2.2 mm 35 degrees soft sponge on my RITC 802-40 instead of the 2.0 mm Dr. Zheng yellow sponge.

Dr. Zheng rebounds faster and is great in increasing the pace but I prefer the better control of the softer sponge. It helps me in blocking and controlling the opponents attacks, at least in my experience.

Surprisingly, I still do not think that the Dr. Zheng yellow is of lesser utility than the softer sponges. It is just "different" and I believe I may have just gotten used to soft sponge.

By the way with the present setup, I was able to easily defeat three club players who I have previously never defeated before. I usually had close games with them but could never break through. This is not to say that it was easy. It was hard work but I seemed to just somehow outlast them and with large margins too.

I guess after 3 months of trying and being the doormat, I am finally getting used to SP.

On an amusing note, one of my opponents (one of the better players in the club) commented before our game that my strokes were quite good but was better suited for inverted play. I replied that I was still adjusting to SP. After that I proceeded to beat him in a very close match (3-2) which really surprised me. I had thought that he was beyond my skill level. I have to thank Kees for his excellent article on Johnny Huang's strategies which I purposely applied. I did not defeat him by my power (because I usually tend to over hit) but used skillful placement of medium speed balls to the body (or playing elbow as my coach would say), then to extreme corners and mixed my returns with soft blocks of his medium speed loops to extreme angles close to the net.

Short pips play is indeed a thinking man's game.

_________________
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR Non-WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 1.9 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB