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| When is the best time to consider using SP? https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33398 |
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| Author: | notcras [ 12 Sep 2018, 17:08 ] |
| Post subject: | When is the best time to consider using SP? |
They are certainly intriguing, and I think they might fit my play style (or what I think it is). When is a good time to consider trying out short pimpled rubbers? Are there certain skills that I should gain proficiency in first? I don't really have access to a coach, but is this something that I should rely on a coach's intuition for? |
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| Author: | keme [ 12 Sep 2018, 18:57 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
What you get:
Some players (me included) use SP with moderate bounce and grip for their backhand. More widespread among veterans and female players, it seems. Makes the short game easier (above the table, spinny, not much looping). Attack against backspin is easier than with inverted, but still a lot harder than with LP. There are even world class players using SP on both sides. Johnny Huang and Sharad Pandit come to mind. What to do (or at least what works for me): Technique - more "deliberate" stroke direction is required, as you can't rely on extreme spin to bring the ball down on the table or to slow it down. Shorter stroke movement needed, but for good precision I believe that you need the mechanics (muscle memory) that comes from training full strokes. Tactics - Return early (off the bounce). Don't give your opponent time to load up the strokes. Use the extra speed you get from SP bounce. Vary placement and speed if you can, to keep the opponent guessing. So ... to your question When to change: SP is a significant change from inverted. If your game is still progressing, don't change. If you feel that you need a change, try it when you have a month or two without important matches. |
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| Author: | notcras [ 13 Sep 2018, 04:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
keme wrote: So ... to your question When to change: SP is a significant change from inverted. If your game is still progressing, don't change. If you feel that you need a change, try it when you have a month or two without important matches. I'm definitely still progressing, so I won't change. Thanks a lot, keme! |
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| Author: | peterpong [ 13 Sep 2018, 04:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
if you do change from mark v butterfly raystorm is decent and easy to play with.mark v is nice and the throw is fairly low i think. i have a bad f/h due to years of playing tennis so use s/p. |
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| Author: | notcras [ 13 Sep 2018, 04:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
peterpong wrote: if you do change from mark v butterfly raystorm is decent and easy to play with.mark v is nice and the throw is fairly low i think. i have a bad f/h due to years of playing tennis so use s/p. Sounds good, I'll keep that in mind! |
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| Author: | peterpong [ 13 Sep 2018, 04:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
notcras wrote: peterpong wrote: if you do change from mark v butterfly raystorm is decent and easy to play with.mark v is nice and the throw is fairly low i think. i have a bad f/h due to years of playing tennis so use s/p. Sounds good, I'll keep that in mind! best thing to do is buy second hand from e bay-dont waste too much money that way. ive tried everything-i sell on if its not for me |
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| Author: | notcras [ 14 Sep 2018, 08:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
peterpong wrote: notcras wrote: peterpong wrote: if you do change from mark v butterfly raystorm is decent and easy to play with.mark v is nice and the throw is fairly low i think. i have a bad f/h due to years of playing tennis so use s/p. Sounds good, I'll keep that in mind! best thing to do is buy second hand from e bay-dont waste too much money that way. ive tried everything-i sell on if its not for me Would you have any advice for discerning between a good deal and a bad deal between used rubbers on ebay? |
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| Author: | nathanso [ 14 Sep 2018, 14:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
I would never use a used table tennis rubber unless it was given to me for free and I knew how old it was/how much use it had. These things wear out/age out quickly. Since you're a tennis player, the flatter SP stroke might be better-suited for your natural tennis ground stroke. If you're on a strict budget I'd recommend 729 Legend 105 SP.. $30 at zeropong.com. If you can afford $45 I'd recommend TSP Spinpips RED max which is what I use. The TSP is faster and more accurate. Both will provide great offensive blocking and punch-blocking; non-reactivity to incoming spin; and the ability to generate a surprising amount of spin on serve and topspin drive stokes. Use a stiff, hard, all-hardwood blade (flexy looper's blades and Balsa blades need not apply for SP duty!) |
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| Author: | murruk [ 16 Sep 2018, 19:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
I´m playing SP since a year on fh cause of fear to miss the topspin/waiting to long for the right ball to topspin. Since then my play improves a lot. I can attack every service, or play it uncomfortably for the opponent. Before I took the service with my LP BH. This is not bad at all. Now I can vary FH/BH. I play on FH with FS802 2,0mm Giant Dragon sponge or DHS 652 with the same sponge. Tested with 652 and 1,8 RMS-Sponge, but this is to mushy. On BH I have the Three Sword Zeus in ox. Blade is mostly an old DHS 6ply (this with the Double Happiness tag on the grip) Alex |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 20 Sep 2018, 02:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
keme wrote: There are even world class players using SP on both sides. Johnny Huang and Sharad Pandit come to mind. Does Denis Neale still play with short pips? I hear he's still around, and I know about him because I read his book (which was written in the late 60s IIRC). There was a photo of his bat, back then Butterfly sold all of 2 types of rubber. "D13", which was inverted, and "C4" which was pips out. (For decades after, ALL inverted rubber sold by Butterfly had the "D13" designation tacked onto the name, because that meant "inverted rubber".) His playing style was described as using only two strokes - forehand topspin drive and backhand topspin drive. But the person who wrote this description (can't remember who it was - another English player, but from the hardbat era I think - mentioned that when faced with a young player with a really good attack that he couldn't get through, he changed to chop defence and won the match. Penhold short pips hitting used to be the national style of China (1960s, early 1970s). There was a second-tier ex-national team player called Yan Jun who did a PhD in math at the University I was at, and we had him at the club for maybe a year, he must've been in his mid-30s by that time. Really hard to play against him - everything came back really fast and with a lot less spin than you would expect. There was another player - a woman - who was even better than he was, though she only came to the club three or four times. We took him to a USATT tournament in Dayton OH one year, I think he beat Clark Yeh (Norman's older brother, who was also a pips out penhold hitter in the Open and had some coaching in China). I remember he'd just bought a car (Chevy Chevette IIRC) and two of us rode with him. He played really great table tennis, but he'd just started driving and insisted on going up the hills in Brown County in fifth gear! Iskandar |
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| Author: | bbkon [ 04 Oct 2018, 01:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
iskandar taib wrote: keme wrote: There are even world class players using SP on both sides. Johnny Huang and Sharad Pandit come to mind. Does Denis Neale still play with short pips? I hear he's still around, and I know about him because I read his book (which was written in the late 60s IIRC). There was a photo of his bat, back then Butterfly sold all of 2 types of rubber. "D13", which was inverted, and "C4" which was pips out. (For decades after, ALL inverted rubber sold by Butterfly had the "D13" designation tacked onto the name, because that meant "inverted rubber".) His playing style was described as using only two strokes - forehand topspin drive and backhand topspin drive. But the person who wrote this description (can't remember who it was - another English player, but from the hardbat era I think - mentioned that when faced with a young player with a really good attack that he couldn't get through, he changed to chop defence and won the match. Penhold short pips hitting used to be the national style of China (1960s, early 1970s). There was a second-tier ex-national team player called Yan Jun who did a PhD in math at the University I was at, and we had him at the club for maybe a year, he must've been in his mid-30s by that time. Really hard to play against him - everything came back really fast and with a lot less spin than you would expect. There was another player - a woman - who was even better than he was, though she only came to the club three or four times. We took him to a USATT tournament in Dayton OH one year, I think he beat Clark Yeh (Norman's older brother, who was also a pips out penhold hitter in the Open and had some coaching in China). I remember he'd just bought a car (Chevy Chevette IIRC) and two of us rode with him. He played really great table tennis, but he'd just started driving and insisted on going up the hills in Brown County in fifth gear! Iskandar Can you post what pips and blade are using the players you re talking to? |
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| Author: | ilikepie [ 05 Oct 2018, 11:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
Sharad Pandit once used a STIGA Energy but more recently I heard was using an M Maze, and J Huang used a Clipper in his prime... I thought he retired though. |
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| Author: | carbonman [ 05 Oct 2018, 13:57 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
Pandit appears to be still playing but not quite as much. When I played him on 2016 I think he was using Spectol. Not sure of his blade though. The last I heard Denis Neale was playing in hardbat events but of course he used short-pips with sponge in his earlier days. He was freakish and probably the smartest player I have seen. His game was very simple - flat-hit fh and bh and a little topspin roll against backspin. He may have used a chop defence at some time but I dont think he would have in his prime. He had wins over Hasegawa and Surbek who, along with Secretin, were the best lobbers in the world. |
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| Author: | NotLikelyToLoop [ 07 Oct 2018, 05:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
To: carbionman Re: Denis Neale How would a player with a "simple" game exhibit "smartness"? It would seem to me the a "complex, varied" game would be needed to exhibit "smartness". And that a "simple" game that wins exhibits "physcial giftedness". Thanks. |
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| Author: | bbkon [ 07 Oct 2018, 12:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is the best time to consider using SP? |
iskandar taib wrote: keme wrote: There are even world class players using SP on both sides. Johnny Huang and Sharad Pandit come to mind. Does Denis Neale still play with short pips? I hear he's still around, and I know about him because I read his book (which was written in the late 60s IIRC). There was a photo of his bat, back then Butterfly sold all of 2 types of rubber. "D13", which was inverted, and "C4" which was pips out. (For decades after, ALL inverted rubber sold by Butterfly had the "D13" designation tacked onto the name, because that meant "inverted rubber".) His playing style was described as using only two strokes - forehand topspin drive and backhand topspin drive. But the person who wrote this description (can't remember who it was - another English player, but from the hardbat era I think - mentioned that when faced with a young player with a really good attack that he couldn't get through, he changed to chop defence and won the match. Penhold short pips hitting used to be the national style of China (1960s, early 1970s). There was a second-tier ex-national team player called Yan Jun who did a PhD in math at the University I was at, and we had him at the club for maybe a year, he must've been in his mid-30s by that time. Really hard to play against him - everything came back really fast and with a lot less spin than you would expect. There was another player - a woman - who was even better than he was, though she only came to the club three or four times. We took him to a USATT tournament in Dayton OH one year, I think he beat Clark Yeh (Norman's older brother, who was also a pips out penhold hitter in the Open and had some coaching in China). I remember he'd just bought a car (Chevy Chevette IIRC) and two of us rode with him. He played really great table tennis, but he'd just started driving and insisted on going up the hills in Brown County in fifth gear! Iskandar I meant yang jun and clark yeh |
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