OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Tried it today. Not happy at all. Good topsheet, but sponge way to soft. Impossible to smash hard. Waste of money.

If i can not find a good option instead of dolphin i will stop playing. No fun to play with short pimple if i can only play soft all the time. Or change to inverted.

I have played maybe the last 12 years with short pimple at a somewhat high level so it is nothing wrong with my technique.

EJ Warning! You should give it more time before you dismiss it.

Have you tried fellow coaches', students', acquaintances' or friends' equipment if any of them use short pimples?

Rather than take well-meaning advice from the internet where no-one knows that you are a dog (see my user name and avatar ), you probably need to somehow try before you buy.

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Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

Hi Lula,

Sorry it didn't work out for you. For what's its worth, the TSP is already technically medium-hard in the modern short pips category.

If that does not work, separate topsheet/sponge combos may be an option.

along the lines of retriever, maybe you should switch to inverted. the dolphin you describe is not exactly what i used to get from japsko, for instance, back in day. maybe you were getting a special batch. might as well switch to something consistent like cheap japanese inverted alternative

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Custom Defense::: Friendship 802 : Dr. Neubauer Super Block

Lula,

If what I read on the other forums are right, you are using the Timo Boll Spirit? I used the Xiom Stradivarius (same composition as TBS) about 1-2 years ago as my primary blade and that had a "dull" feeling on medium-high impact (feels like not smashing hard enough). Switching back to all woods brought back the crisp penetrating feel even with softer rubbers.

Just a thought, changing one part of your setup may need balances from the other.

I was thinking.. surely you can get it on AliExpress?? Apparently no.. the only Haifu rubbers left seem to be Whale, Shark and Penguin. The old "reject" sheets can still be found, but not on Eacheng.

Incidentally, if you use table tennis glue to glue topsheets to sponge, I'm not surprised they're coming off. Table tennis glues are designed to be weak-ish. But there are a LOT of much stronger contact glues out there - the ones for formica counter tops would probably be the strongest, followed by those designed for shoe repair. Even the ubiquitous yellow-tube UHU is stronger than table tennis glues. The main problem, I think, is that if you use these solvent-based glues on the topsheet it'll curl up and won't lie flat. Also you have ONE chance to align things properly.

Perhaps these building glues are available in water-based varieties - there have been fires caused by solvents coming off these glues in the past, so perhaps there are. Or you could use a layer of the construction adhesive on top of the sponge and a layer of water-based TT glue on the bottom of the topsheet.

Iskandar

I will give it more time. But it was very obvious that it was very different from Dolphin. Have no ones to try. Everyone in Sweden is basically using Dolphin. Falck use Yasaka becauce he is sponsored.

Okey, it seems hard to glue it yourself. Topsheet and sponge.

Changing to inverted is really not an option. I have played for so long with pips and are on such a level i proably would drop a few levels if i change. I can play with inverted but then i need relearn more than 10 years of training.

I use Timo Boll ZLC. Okey, maybe you are correct. I do like my blade and do not want to change. Maybe as a last option. Thanks for the idea!

Okey, maybe i can get them. But if they last for so short time and it actually seems like they are stopping the production i do not see much point. I do not glue the topsheet and sponge together. That is already done. It is just that it is know to be a bad glueing by them. People that use Dolphin are unfortunaly very much aware of this.

Thanks for all the answers! I will keep trying but i think i need to try something else.

It is interesting. I tried a visitors very soft victas pimple rubber, i could smash good with that. So maybe it is not the softness. With spinpips blue nothing happened. It was like all my technique, training and muscles were gone. Pretty disturbing.

If you can still get Dolphin (which apparently "everyone" in Sweden can), why not stick with it? I don't think gluing a pips-out topsheet onto sponge can be too difficult, Chinese players in the 1970s did this all the time. Gluing an inverted topsheet onto sponge - that'd be more difficult I think.

Iskandar

Because the quality is to bad. the edge of the rubber fall of after like a month for me. And for almost everyone else. So if i want to play a real match i would not be allowed. It also seems that they are not doing them anymore. I want to stay with it but for these reasons i can not.

Everyone in Sweden have the same problem and i know that they are looking at alternatives aswell.

Thinking of trying chinese short pips like 802, 802-40, 651. Have anyone tried them?

Wouldn't edge tape, and better gluing, help? Also I don't see why they'd prevent you from playing if you've lost small pieces off the edge of the racket. If they do, then things have REALLY gotten ridiculous.

Iskandar

I have the thickest tape available i think. Even have two stripes two save the rubber. Do not work. I Do not glue bad. Nothing wrong with the glueing between blade and sponge. It is their glueing between sponge and topsheet that is bad. Tried to find them separerly But No luck.

That is the rules. If someone complains the umpire Will not let me play with it. Do not think you understand how bad the quality is. It loosens alot. To expensive for this. And i also find it stupid to keep playing with something they proably Do not Do anymore.

Honestly Lula, you can buy all of these pips and they probably won't feel as good as the TSP let alone the Dolphin.

You seem like a high-level player and contributor to forums. Would be a shame to have you quit the game because equipment is not perfect. Let's see if the below helps.

I have the 802 (3 different sponges), 802-40 all on hand. The 802-40 feels best, fairly crisp, I've used that for years. But much slower than the contemporaries, doesn't even come close to the Dolphin.

I was in your position last year trying to find something stiff, hard fast, crisp and feels good hitting with and my conclusion is that the BLADE is the culprit, not the rubbers. I've met a few very helpful people over the forums especially adyy here at OOAK who helped me find that feeling and all wood is the answer.

The Dolphin feels good because its the single hardest topsheet + rock of a sponge combo ever put together as short pips. It doesn't matter what the blade is because nothing gets through that sheet. No other pip will be as hard and crisp as the Dolphin.

For hope? As I posted in a few other threads, 7-ply basswood blades feels absolutely the best right now. I'm trying to further optimize that and have 7 custom blades incoming to confirm some theories. But what I can say with absolute authority is that ALC, zlc, zlf, textreme, etc etc etc composites ALL dull the sensation of medium-hard impacts making you feel you are not hitting "through" enough. Also avoid hollow blades even if they are advertised as "very hard". Short pips by natures are less crisp than inverted, so the feeling of dullness is amplified.

Ditch your ZLC blade, look on ebay for "old chinese 7-ply blades", pick one that looks the thickest and buy it for next to nothing. You give up on some initial speed, but the BIG boost in confidence will have you hitting harder than ever before. Crisp smashing even with soft rubbers.

7 ply Hinoki (make sure 7mm+) would also work, as might the BBC Ghost (i haven't tried this one, but all theories point it as good). What you are looking for is "high density impact", not hardness, not stiffness, a measure not advertised or discussed enough. Mono-material is great in that regard, as is "soft-to-hard core" structures. But stay away from "hard-to-soft core" and stay away from composites.

If adyy has no objections, I would be happy to forward you some prototypes he made once I get them. All have the theme of "stiff, hard, fast, linear, dense". Although this is more of a curiosity project, and nothing is guaranteed. You need alot of that curiosity to test random blades haha. I admit, I'm a better EJ than a player haha.

lasta, aren't these old Chinese blades you are talking about heavy as hell?

Yes they are. Regularly over 100g. But I think manageable as short pips are much lighter than most inverted (except for Dolphin).

If you want short pips heaven to smash the sh1t out of little white balls...you pay!