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PostPosted: 21 May 2009, 09:46 
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Kees wrote:
It probably is not lack of spin that made you hit long. A ball that goes long is mostly going too flat. This may be caused by:
1. too much forward motion of the arm, e.g. when you use your whole arm (instead of only your underarm) when you drive or hit or smash a ball over or closely behind the table. Watch your arm when you are training; if after you made a stroke (especially a fast or powerful one) your upper-arm is pointing forward when at the same time it is making an angle of about 90 degrees with your torso, you have used your upper-arm. Remedy: try and keep your elbow closer to your body all the time and do not really lift it. The stroke should feel as coming from your under-arm only and your upper-arm and shoulder should be relaxed. Only when you drive or smash from more than about a meter away, you can start using your upper-arm, because at that distance the ball will drop (gravity) even when hit powerfully forward. If you want to exert more power close to or over the table, use the rotation of your torso instead of your whole arm.


My trainer from over 12 years ago would stick a handkerchief in my underarm and declare that there would be hell to pay if that handkerchief ever falls off and hits the ground.

He would also place a bench behind me so i would stand close to the table.

I remember him most for stressing never never to give up and still play seriously despite being behind by a mile. Otherwise, quitting becomes a habit.

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2009, 00:03 
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When you say 'under-arm' you mean the Axilla, armpit? or the forearm?


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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 03:29 
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jmihawk wrote:
When you say 'under-arm' you mean the Axilla, armpit? or the forearm?


Armpit.

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TSP Spectol Soft - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB
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BBC 9-10-9


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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2012, 06:37 
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Baal wrote:
Shakehanders have a harder time with this. They definitely need spinny pips, for a start. They need thicker sponges. They also need to close their blades a bit more.


In my opinion, the best example against this thesis is Miao Miao. She plays with a 1,5mm 563, an not very grippy SP/MP.


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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2012, 12:37 
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PowerPips wrote:
Baal wrote:
Shakehanders have a harder time with this. They definitely need spinny pips, for a start. They need thicker sponges. They also need to close their blades a bit more.


In my opinion, the best example against this thesis is Miao Miao. She plays with a 1,5mm 563, an not very grippy SP/MP.


To be correct Miao Miao plays with 563 on her back hand, but plays with TSP Spinpips on her forehand and it is a fairly spinny short pips....

Ian

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PostPosted: 24 Apr 2012, 03:36 
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ian demagi wrote:
PowerPips wrote:
Baal wrote:
Shakehanders have a harder time with this. They definitely need spinny pips, for a start. They need thicker sponges. They also need to close their blades a bit more.


In my opinion, the best example against this thesis is Miao Miao. She plays with a 1,5mm 563, an not very grippy SP/MP.


To be correct Miao Miao plays with 563 on her back hand, but plays with TSP Spinpips on her forehand and it is a fairly spinny short pips....

Ian



That's right. But I have thought about here backhand.


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PostPosted: 27 Sep 2014, 11:27 
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Topspin's always been possible with pips-out - in fact it's been there since hard rubber. In fact, it's necessary to have in order to get the ball to hit the table once you put any sort of pace on it, even with hardbat. The AMOUNT of topspin possible is, of course, less than what you get with inverted rubber.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2015, 12:37 
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Kees wrote:
Poornewb wrote:
Quote:
do you loop the ball at the top of the bounce or when its falling? should we block with topspin as well?

You don't actually loop, not the way as you would with inverted; you add topspin to your drive or smash, that's something different.
You still take the ball on or before the top of the bounce.
Blocking actively you may add topspin as well, but blocking with pips needs to be varied, so you will block with no-spin or backspin also.
Maybe to clear things up: playing with spinny pips is defenitely in no way a kind of transition to play with inverted! It remains pips play.


I need some info how can i do fast loops against a no spin ball or side spin ball?, I play CPEN 802+clipper


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2015, 20:04 
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bbkon wrote:
Kees wrote:
Poornewb wrote:
Quote:
do you loop the ball at the top of the bounce or when its falling? should we block with topspin as well?

You don't actually loop, not the way as you would with inverted; you add topspin to your drive or smash, that's something different.
You still take the ball on or before the top of the bounce.
Blocking actively you may add topspin as well, but blocking with pips needs to be varied, so you will block with no-spin or backspin also.
Maybe to clear things up: playing with spinny pips is defenitely in no way a kind of transition to play with inverted! It remains pips play.


I need some info how can i do fast loops against a no spin ball or side spin ball?, I play CPEN 802+clipper


Contact the ball on the top of the bounce, or on the rise.
Your blade should be almost vertical, very slightly closed.
Make a fast upward motion with your underarm, as if you are "pulling up" a backspin ball. Use the wrist as well, when making contact with the ball.
Produce forward motion by moving your shoulder forward, rotating the torso; if needed for more power and/or balance, step forward a bit with the right foot (for righthanders).

A common error is to produce the forward motion of the ball with the arm; if you do this, it will go at the expense of the topspin you impart and the ball will fly long. Use the arm/wrist for the spin, the body for the power.
Also, don't overhit! It is better to make sure there is sufficient spin on the ball. When you can do this, you can add some more power, but not before you can produce the spin.

The amount of topspin produced depends mostly on the speed your rubber grazes the ball, so your arm and wrist should produce great grazing speed if a lot of spin is required.

As a rule, 802 takes on little spin itself (but a soft sponge will change that), so if you produce good topspin this will more than neutralize the incoming (no)spin. But the sidespin will partly continue, so the ball may bounce quite awkwardly for the opponent.

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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2016, 12:04 
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Thank you so much for this article. Been playing semi-seriously exactly 1 tear ago, started being a looper to FH pip hitter just over 2 months ago. I don't get too exhausted playing this style and getting better everyday.

Spinning with short pips just got easier with Uranus Poly jean, that is, coming from RITC 802. Admittedly, these 2 are the only SPs that I ever used but you see, I am so lucky to have found true love in the shortest time possible :lol: There may be other better SP out there but for doing that fast and very low SP loop to the opponent's backhand, the Uranus is fine with me.

Kees, your posts and articles about SPs are what made me transition painlessly from looper to hitter. As long as an SP hitter hopeful will follow the numerous technique outlines that you've made, I don't think SP play is any difficult to learn than the inverted.

Now, this particular post about spinning with SP is important to the fact that it extends the rally longer. I can't always be on time to hit the ball on top of the bounce and also the opponent will get used to your hit. Spinning puts the ball on the table during desperate moments. Ahemm, I think I'm just paraphrasing this post's contents. For beginners like me, please read and understand it.

I also fell in love with Johnny Huang's play that I'm mulling over changing my backhand inverted to an SP. But, on second thought.. BH high spin loops and the slow loops are what makes my gameplay my gameplay.

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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2016, 17:39 
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You should also take a look at Mattias Karlsson from Sweden, a very successful professional player who plays inverted BH, SP FH. Lots of videos on YouTube. Great style!

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PostPosted: 09 Nov 2016, 07:12 
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Wow! Great backhand, too. He does not really block..His FH are all drives and counterdrives. That's what is lacking in my game. I block too much with the forehand! Perhaps it is because I play much too close to the table where I can reach slow balls but can't react fast enough to counterdrive. I think with low and fast but hittable balls, the "beginning" stroke of an FH hit should be well behind and below the ball in anticipation of a fast hit or drive with a little topspin. Is that right? It seems Karlsonn drives the ball even at its descending phase, something that you say is hard to do with SP.
In my play, I noticed some very fast balls that, strangely were not hit (by me) that strong. I just just do the usual FH Sp stroke from your instructions and off the ball will go, sometimes shooting past my playing buddy. I tried to consciously replicate this stroke but I wasn't successful. Now, I think I might have used my wrist for additional forward motion which you advice against in your articles. Is the wrist being used by others for an extra ooomph in their strokes?

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PostPosted: 09 Nov 2016, 15:54 
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j2sip wrote:
Wow! Great backhand, too. He does not really block..His FH are all drives and counterdrives. That's what is lacking in my game. I block too much with the forehand! Perhaps it is because I play much too close to the table where I can reach slow balls but can't react fast enough to counterdrive. I think with low and fast but hittable balls, the "beginning" stroke of an FH hit should be well behind and below the ball in anticipation of a fast hit or drive with a little topspin. Is that right? It seems Karlsonn drives the ball even at its descending phase, something that you say is hard to do with SP.
In my play, I noticed some very fast balls that, strangely were not hit (by me) that strong. I just just do the usual FH Sp stroke from your instructions and off the ball will go, sometimes shooting past my playing buddy. I tried to consciously replicate this stroke but I wasn't successful. Now, I think I might have used my wrist for additional forward motion which you advice against in your articles. Is the wrist being used by others for an extra ooomph in their strokes?


Blocking a lot is, for a "beginner", quite alright. Keep doing that, but practice to make the block more active. This way you will go from blocking to driving, then from driving to hitting, which all are the same basic movement, but driving a little longer than blocking and hitting a little longer still. Just a little, though! The speed you make should come from your body, the weight you put behind the stroke, not from making the stroke longer or do more with your arm.

You should make your stroke, when hitting, as short as possible; you should hit the ball starting your stroke just inches away from it. There is no need to start far from the ball if you use your body for the stroke. It might help if you think of it as a boxing stroke, viz. a right hook, never a swing. Make sure your shoulder moves forward in sync with your arm, this is important to keep the stroke compact and avoid stretching your arm to get to to the ball. To be successful with this, you have to be close to the ball, always, so you need fast and good footwork.

As for using the wrist, this is only for putting spin on the ball, not ever for producing speed! So the wrist does NOT go forward (as it would when you slap) but "inward" (as it will when you wave), that is in the direction of your thumb.

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2016, 00:04 
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You should make your stroke, when hitting, as short as possible; you should hit the ball starting your stroke just inches away from it. There is no need to start far from the ball if you use your body for the stroke. It might help if you think of it as a boxing stroke, viz. a right hook, never a swing. Make sure your shoulder moves forward in sync with your arm, this is important to keep the stroke compact and avoid stretching your arm to get to to the ball. To be successful with this, you have to be close to the ball, always, so you need fast and good footwork.

I have learned this basic stroke from the pipfacts site. The way you presented it is so basic and well written that it is so easy to follow. But I can only do this effectively when I'm the one who is on offense, when slow balls present themselves. When I try to counterdrive it goes to the net.

Quote:
As for using the wrist, this is only for putting spin on the ball, not ever for producing speed! So the wrist does NOT go forward (as it would when you slap) but "inward" (as it will when you wave), that is in the direction of your thumb.

Now I see why that particular wrist stroke is inconsistent for me. I don't do that inward stroke but I saw it being done by an officemate who borrowed my paddle and was using the SP on the forehand. I assumed he was using a forehand spin stroke(1st time to use SP) but his balls are going in very low, and he was hitting AFTER the ball has dropped a little bit already.

Thank you so much for your patience.

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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 08:05 
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I really like the 802 2.0mm for backhand but I'm planning to go 2.2mm next month. Will there be a SIGNIFICANT difference in speed, and specially control?

For forehand, the 563 1.5mm is good and yes it does saves me from netted balls when hitting out of reach and descending balls by topspinning. Since 563 is not available here in 2.2mm, should I go 2mm or are the Globe 889 or 888 in 2.2mm more viable for ease of topspinning when needed but are also spin insensitive? How about the 802-40 for FH?

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