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 Post subject: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2009, 13:30 
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Andrew had good things to say about these new short pips on a thread not far below this one, and so I decided to give them a try, since Cole was selling them for 20 bucks. If you have followed any of my posts, you may know that I have played for Raystorm for several years and didn't think it could be improved, and have returned to it after trying many other spinny short pips. I have finally found something I like better.

1. The reviewer: I am a shakehands player use a spinny inverted on forehand and fast and spinny short pips on my backhand, primarily to attack. I black with my backhand when necessary, but I rarely set up a point intentionally so that I will be blocking with the backhand (I will do that once in a while just to change pace). These days I am about 2050 US rating. I play with a soft but fast and relatively stiff carbon-arylate blade, the Butterfly Viscaria, which is not a common blade for this style (conventional wisdom being that a harder blade is good for short pips, but I choose blades to suit my forehand side). I absolutely need a short pips that can generate spin, and generally having something that is sneaky and dead has not been that useful for me. I have been playing with short pips for about five years; before that I looped from both sides (and used inverted). I need to be able to occasionally generate spin serving with the pips.

2. Physical Properties
I ordered the pips in black, 2.0 mm (which is the thickest that Cole has). The sponge is definitely harder than Raystorm, not quite as hard as Flarestorm, and is most similar to Hammond FA among the pips I have tried. It comes in good packaging. The pips are broad, similar to Raystorm or 802-40, and are oriented horizontally (as with 802-40 and in contrast to Raystorm). The pips are very grippy, much more so than Raystorm, comparable in height it seems to me to Raystorm and 802-40. There is some texture on top of the pips, not sure how to describe it. The top sheet is a bit shinier than I am use to seeing. I am thinking that the sponge may be some sort of tensor or similar kind of thing. It does not have any markings that suggest that it comes from the German tensor factory, though.

3. Speed:
- Speed on slow strokes: Very similar to Raystorm, perhaps during the first five minutes a bit harder to control, as the throw angle is a lot lower and the stuff is distinctly bouncier.
- Speed on blocks: Very fast if you so desire. Also can slow down balls, not quite as easily as Raystorm, but enought to wreck havoc on an opponent's timing. A great feel though, and the ball comes back quite flat and it is easier to get a ball reversal effect than Raystorm, but not as much as Spectol.
- Speed on smashes; When I flat hit the ball is very fast and has good penetrating power that wins points readily. I was able to hit great angles. The throw is a bit lower than Raystorm, but not too low like Flarestorm. I broke my partner's spirit today, he and I are at exactly the same level and have had very enjoyable battles for years -- today I was blasting through him.

4. Spin:
- Spin on attacking strokes; I can do my signature short loop/roll and still get enough spin to get people to pop it up, but it is not as good at this as Raystorm. Still I can make this shot, so that is all that matters. When I want to hit a bit harder, there is enough spin to bring the ball onto the table. It is possible to attack with a flatter ball than with Raystorm. It is possible to hit through spin very well indeed. All in all it is a very good trade-off, and it opens up a very diverse attacking game that is a bit more geared to hitting than Raystorm. With this stuff you can play a true short pips game, and still hold onto some inverted habits. I can generate enough spin on serves with the pips to make people misjudge, not as much as Raystorm, but enough to be effective, which is all that matters.

This rubber is great for aggressive pushing, vastly superior than any short pips I have used before. I could generate more spin reliably because the throw angle is low on pushes. Aggressive pushing with Raystorm was always a bit problematic, the trajectory was never quite right, but with this stuff I can get a nasty low push that will generate from my opponent a weak shot that I can then punish with a forehand power loop. At the same time, I can flick short serves and change direction at the last minute.

Chopping off the table is something I only do when I am struggling to stay in a point -- the object is to slow things down as much as I can so I can maybe get back to center and balance. I can make this shot with these pips and in a couple of more sessions I think it will be better than Raystorm for this shot, which, hopefully, I will not need to be making too often.

5. Control:
It is quite a bit faster than Raystorm, so I needed to adjust a bit to keep my blocks on the table, but i after about two hours, I could do everything I could do with Raystorm in terms of pushes, placement, etc. and actually found myself hitting better angles with nastier trajectories over the net.

6. Other Playing properties:
Sensitivity to incoming spin about the same as Raystorm, throw angle substantially lower, but not so much as to make the thing unplayable. Definitely a bouncy feel, on a really fast blade like, say, an Ishlion this could be a big problem.

7. Reference:
The rubber that is most like this one in my experience is Hammond FA, but this one feels better, definitely more controllable, and it is just a bit more than half the price.

8. This would not suit a long pips user, but it would be a good choice for someone making a transition from inverted. It is very good right off the bounce and away from the table it is just as bad as other spinny short pips. This is not a place you want to be with this style if you can help it. The extra speed makes it a bit more forgiving than Raystorm when you do get caught further back than you should be.

One other thing, it could be that this rubber is simply a better match to the blade I am using. I like the carbon-arylate blade because it suits my inverted forehand attack. The slightly harder sponge and topsheet of Se7en may compensate for the soft blade, while the very grippy pips still gives the spin I need.

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2009, 22:46 
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Nice review, Se7en was very good for a top-of-the-bounce power game and a good rubber for those used to inverted. I can see that someone who likes Raystom would like it.

I found it wasn't as good blocking due to the reaction topspin compared to 651 and I liked 651 better off the bounce so that was better for my penhold game and harder blade. I do miss the exceptional spin I can get on serves and pushes.

I assume you are using the power version with 37 hardness sponge. The all around version with 33 sponge feels a good bit softer, Quality is exceptionally good, as good as major European brands.

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2009, 23:40 
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I think so, it is definitely harder than Raystorm. One comment I could make is that the packaging is a bit confusing.

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2009, 23:48 
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Careful examination of the packaging says that I am using a variation with 37 degree 2.0 mm sponge. They also apparently make 1.5, 1.8 and 2.2 mm sponges as well. Their short pips also come with a 33 degree sponge in the same thicknesses and in an OX version. The company itself has no website. They are apparently Swiss.

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2009, 00:01 
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Baal wrote:
Careful examination of the packaging says that I am using a variation with 37 degree 2.0 mm sponge. They also apparently make 1.5, 1.8 and 2.2 mm sponges as well. Their short pips also come with a 33 degree sponge in the same thicknesses and in an OX version. The company itself has no website. They are apparently Swiss.


Yes, I've used 1.5 and 1.8 and like them. Definitely some tensor-type effect but not supersoft like Tango Ultra. I'm going to less spinny pips, plan to try Radical soon and maybe Flarestorm sometime,

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2009, 06:40 
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Radical has very small but very grippy pips. My wife plays the same style as you do and uses them very effectively. A lot of reversal on blocking, still good for hitting. I find them tricky to play against, but they don't suit my backand at all. Flarestorm is also popular among penholders and there is a girl at my club on the national cadet team who is kind of a Li Jiawei clone and she uses them very well on her forehand. Either would be good.

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2009, 07:18 
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Baal wrote:
Radical has very small but very grippy pips. My wife plays the same style as you do and uses them very effectively. A lot of reversal on blocking, still good for hitting. I find them tricky to play against, but they don't suit my backand at all. Flarestorm is also popular among penholders and there is a girl at my club on the national cadet team who is kind of a Li Jiawei clone and she uses them very well on her forehand. Either would be good.


I tried Radical before, but in max, I thought the thinner sponge would make them more controllable. They are indeed very grippy. Thought about Flarestorm, but since the thinnest is 1.7 it might be too fast for me. I thought 1.8 Spectol Speed and Royal were too fast for me to control effectively.

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2009, 09:23 
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Great review Baal!

Yes I agree about the packaging... I've got a few sample sheets, and some are marked with the appropriate sponge, but some are not marked at all :?

OOAK shop is still considering carrying these rubbers... what thickness / hardness do you think would be most appropriate? They are too expensive (and hardly known) to carry all varieties...

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2009, 09:30 
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haggisv wrote:
Great review Baal!

Yes I agree about the packaging... I've got a few sample sheets, and some are marked with the appropriate sponge, but some are not marked at all :?

OOAK shop is still considering carrying these rubbers... what thickness / hardness do you think would be most appropriate? They are too expensive (and hardly known) to carry all varieties...


Maybe 2.0 in the 33 sponge and 1.8 in the 37 sponge?

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2009, 09:52 
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Thank you, that sounds reasonable!

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 Post subject: Re: Se7en Short pips
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2009, 12:33 
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I really like the 2.0 in 37 degree. I hope you will carry it so I will have a source if I need it!

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