OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 18 Feb 2018, 07:20


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: OOAK Guide to Twiddling
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 07:24 
Offline
Sitting on Defence
Sitting on Defence
User avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2007, 04:42
Posts: 1395
Location: USA
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 33 times
Blade: Victas K.M.
FH: VS>401 2.0mm
BH: Dtecs 0.5mm
Thought it might be helpful if we pooled some of our collective knowledge and created a step-by-step guide for players who are interested in twiddling but aren’t sure where to start. I am by no means an authority on the subject, but there seems to be a lack of practical advice for players who are interested in learning how to twiddle, so I thought I’d give it a whirl. Please feel free to post your own strategies/tips/suggestions!

A Working Definition

Twiddling: the strategic turning of a combination racket in order to introduce spin variation and/or assist in overcoming some of the physical limitations of playing surfaces such as pips or antispin.

Mechanics

The first step in integrating twiddling into your game is finding a way to smoothly and quickly turn the racket in your hand without requiring much conscious thought. It should become instinctive—a reflex even. There’s really no excuse for not practicing this step because it can be practiced virtually anywhere. You can start off practicing the twiddle with your hand motionless, but it’s important to eventually transition into having the twiddle become a seamless part of the backstroke for your next shot, so you should also practice twiddling mid-swing. This will allow you to twiddle much more quickly than if you keep it as a separate movement. Some find twiddling easier with straight handles, but it’s really down to personal preference. I know many players who twiddle just fine with flared handles…

Next you’ll need to learn a few basic strokes with the inverted rubber on your backhand and the pips/anti on your forehand. If you’re a former double inverted player, then you only really need to worry about practicing with the pips/anti on the forehand a bit. Really just a basic inverted block/drive and push for the backhand, and a pips push/flick and block/chop for the forehand will take you a long way. No need to worry about a devastating backhand loop or a forehand pips smash just yet. At this point you’re just looking to cover your bases in case you get caught out with the wrong side of the racket mid-rally. In those situations just try to keep the ball in play and don’t worry about making any point-winning shots. If you are consistent with the above mentioned shots, you should have an answer for any type of spin.

Twiddling During a Game

Now you’re ready to start twiddling in a game. Many people see higher level players twiddling on the fly and get intimidated. They assume that they’d never be able to do that and consequently dismiss twiddling altogether. This is a mistake. Twiddling at-will or at random during a rally is the most advanced and difficult way to twiddle. There are many other ways to twiddle that are easier to learn and can be used to progress up to the ability to twiddle at will:

1) Double-twiddle: this can be an effective mind game and is ideal for starting out because you do not really have to do any strokes with the reverse rubber. A double-twiddle is when you twiddle the racket twice in quick succession resulting in the racket surfaces ending up in the same place they began. The best time to do this is during the opponents serve, right before they toss the ball. Ideally, they notice you turning the racket and get distracted thinking about what kind of return to expect. You can also double-twiddle during your serve, possibly causing confusion about which surface you’re serving with.

2) Twiddling during service: this is something that most players do even if they don’t twiddle any other time. This can be extremely effective depending on the opponent—especially at about 2000 USATT and below. The basic idea is to have an identical looking pips/anti and inverted serve and then to randomly and covertly switch between the two. After you serve, twiddle back to normal and proceed as usual. You might be surprised how long it will take some players to catch on to this strategy. Like the double-twiddle, this doesn’t involve rallying with the racket switched around so it’s ideal for beginners. One caveat, each serve must be a good service in its own right. Don’t depend on them misreading it: you must be ready for the return.

3) Twiddle for service-reception: this is a little tougher to learn but can pay off big time, especially when alternated with the double-twiddle. Generally, it’s best to wait until you have a pretty good read on your opponent’s serves before attempting this. You may have to wait until game two or three before you can do it. The obvious use for twiddling on service reception is to deal with a tricky serve. Fortunately, the types of serves that are difficult to return with pips/anti are generally fairly easy to handle with inverted (and vice-versa). Don’t overhit, often the element of surprise is more than enough to force a poor return. Alternatively, you could twiddle not on the serves that give you trouble, but on the ones that are easy to return (using the twiddle to introduce spin variation). For example, your opponent, being wary of your pips/anti backhand, keeps serving short underspin to your forehand which you’ve been pushing back with inverted. Once you can predict the serve, wait until after he has tossed the ball and twiddle so you can push with the pips/anti on the forehand side. Quickly twiddle back to normal and get ready for a pop-up.

Triggered Sequences

Once you can do the above three things effectively during games it’s time to start thinking about twiddling during rallies. These twiddles should be premeditated, not random spur of the moment decisions. The best way to do this is to identify common patterns during rallies that tend to develop based on your style of play. Once you have the pattern you can decide on a trigger, i.e., if x happens, twiddle.

A chopper, for example, will likely face the following scenario many times throughout a match: he chops, opponent loops, he chops again (much heavier), opponent pushes. It can be very difficult to field a push with pips/anti because you can’t put much spin on the ball. This means the placement and height of the push must be spot on to prevent it from being killed (not easy to do when you’re running in at full tilt). Twiddling can help alleviate this problem. By pushing with the inverted instead you can really load up the spin and help prevent the next ball from being killed.

As a chopper myself, here’s how I think about it. Anytime I give a nice heavy chop that doesn’t bounce too high or too short I immediately twiddle. That’s my trigger. Odds are they’re going to chicken out and push anyway, so I can come in and push heavy with inverted. If they do decide to loop it, because it was a heavy push, the loop is usually slow and high-arcing making it vulnerable to a quick inverted block. The change in speed is quite startling when they’re used to a pips/anti block or chop from you’re backhand, and most are lucky to even get their bat on the ball.

The above sequence is triggered from a shot that you play. Another possible trigger could be a response to a particular shot or strategy that your opponent consistently employs. These can be more difficult to pull off at first because it requires some anticipation on your part. A common strategy against pips/anti is to attempt to “pin you down” on your backhand side by playing deep no spin/light spin shots. It’s typically very obvious when an opponent is adopting this strategy, so it’s an ideal opportunity to twiddle and give them something they don’t expect. Again, you don’t have to murder the ball. Just use the inverted to reintroduce some spin to the rally so your pips/anti can be effective again.


Putting it all Together

The important thing to remember when trying to incorporate twiddling into your game is to start small and gradually increase its use. In the beginning twiddling should never be random. Too many players start trying to twiddle too much during a game with no plan in place. Invariably, they end up forgetting which side is which, they get caught with the wrong side at the wrong time, and eventually get discouraged and give up. If in the beginning you only learn and concentrate on service/reception and then maybe 1-2 triggered sequences, then you’ll be much less likely to fall into the traps that plague most beginning twiddlers. After a while, twiddling will become more and more natural, and as your strokes improve over time you can begin to twiddle at will. Unexpected pop-ups can be neatly put away with an inverted backhand smash. Forehand chops can be taken below the table with a hidden twiddle. The possibilities are virtually endless…

_________________
Grab a free copy of the only training and nutrition guide written specifically for the table tennis athlete: The Table Tennis Player's Guide to Health and Fitness.
Feel free to PM me with any health, training, or nutrition questions :)

Kit: Victas Koji Matsushita | Victas VS > 401 2.0mm | Dtecs O.5mm


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 09:21 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31681
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1550 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
Wow, an excellent guide Joo Se Kev! :clap: :clap: :clap:

This is something I should really work on a lot more... there's a lot of easy points to be won with a bit of thought...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 09:39 
Offline
The Pied Pipper
The Pied Pipper
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 23:16
Posts: 1318
Location: Somewhere out there!
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 33 times
Nice one Joo, -a good read, my problem being a s/h is i often catch my index finger when twiddling ( i have long digits!), still struggling with what to do about that, although i often twiddle after serve effectively, i find it hard to do during points (speed being a problem) and have sometimes found myself in "no man's land"!

Sadly, i persevere, but badly!

Any hints would help! ;)

_________________
_________________
Think, before you drink, before you write!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 09:42 
Offline
Horse Hockey!
User avatar

Joined: 03 Dec 2009, 03:25
Posts: 978
Location: North Carolina, USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 30 times
Excellent! :clap:

Things I've learned about twiddling:

- I use Butterfly Grip Wrap and it gives me more "grip" for twiddling. Without the grip wrap the handle can get slippery, especially when it's humid or my hand gets even the tiniest bit sweaty.

- I started to get comfortable twiddling by doing bh serves with inverted then twiddling. For a long time that was the only time I twiddled but it got me to the point where I don't even think about the twiddle back to the fh.

- When playing practice matches against a much weaker player (or even occasionally against stronger players) I'll play my LPs on the forehand exclusively WITHOUT twiddling to get more practice with the opposite setup.

- I both serve and receive with the blade hidden below the table. My opponents never know which side is coming out until they serve or (when I'm serving) about half-way through the toss. Sometimes I twiddle multiple times below the table while waiting so they can't be sure. Or I'll give them an "accidental" peek and then sometimes I'll twiddle and sometimes not. I've actually had opponents complain about how distracting it is for them trying to watch for which color I'm using...that means it's a good tactic!

- Sometimes you will drop your bat or forget which side you are using. :lol:

 

_________________
Giant Dragon Kris Special : RITC 802 w/Dawei 2.2 35d fh : : Donic Blue Fire M3 2.0 black bh
Member of Charlotte Table Tennis Club, Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
Visit Charlotte Table Tennis Club on Facebook


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 12:52 
Offline
Secret Agent Double OX
Secret Agent Double OX
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 10724
Location: USA
Has thanked: 321 times
Been thanked: 407 times
Blade: Dr. Neubauer Barricade
FH: Tibhar Super Defense .9
BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster
Great article. +1 on the straight handle. I twiddle on backhand serves and also during points if someone plays passive against my LPs.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2011, 00:30 
Offline
Sitting on Defence
Sitting on Defence
User avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2007, 04:42
Posts: 1395
Location: USA
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 33 times
Blade: Victas K.M.
FH: VS>401 2.0mm
BH: Dtecs 0.5mm
@Robot Blocker, I would get a cheap bat (something you don't mind dropping) that feels similar to your main setup and carry it around the house with you. Practice twiddling while doing other things (watching tv, vacuuming, etc). I've seen some older players with really messed up hands from arthritis twiddle without a thought, so physical limitation can be overcome, it just takes practice :)

@cyber1call, I do the same thing. Being in the USA, I rarely have opportunity to drill at the club, so I'm reduced to using matches against weaker players as "training." Playing entire games with the racket switched around is a great way to force you to learn new strokes. Another more difficult thing I do from time to time is to attempt to twiddle on every shot for the whole game. Still working on that one though :lol:

_________________
Grab a free copy of the only training and nutrition guide written specifically for the table tennis athlete: The Table Tennis Player's Guide to Health and Fitness.
Feel free to PM me with any health, training, or nutrition questions :)

Kit: Victas Koji Matsushita | Victas VS > 401 2.0mm | Dtecs O.5mm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2011, 01:46 
Offline
More Block Than Bite
User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2011, 12:33
Posts: 516
Location: Georgia, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Very good info here kev :up: :clap: .


I too, struggle with twiddling during the game, but do it well after serving with inverted BH then twiddling back to FH. I like the idea of twiddling between every point when playing a lower level player and playing entire game with inverted on BH, I will do this for sure, thanks :) .

_________________
"Success is on the same road as failure; success is just a little farther down the road."

Gambler OS Kevlar | Avalox Pronte Soft 2.0 | SL Dornenglanz OX

Red Tide by Ross Leidy | Avalox Pronte Soft 2.0 | SL Dornenglanz OX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2011, 01:48 
Offline
Pimple Popper
Pimple Popper
User avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2008, 09:35
Posts: 848
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times
i sit there and twiddle while watching tv.

makes it second nature. anyone can do it, just have to feel the rubber with your finger instantly, and it moves.

_________________
2018 Black Ops Setup:
Dr Neubauer Matador Texa ST
Andro Blowfish 1.8mm
Dr Neubauer Rhino 1.3mm

Usual Setup:
Butterfly Matsushita Pro Alpha
Yasaka Rising Dragon 2.0mm
Giant Dragon Talon OX

"Gimme Gimme Gimme that Long Push"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2011, 05:52 
Offline
Smack Attack!
Smack Attack!
User avatar

Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 15:39
Posts: 3489
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 51 times
SuperHappyFunSlider wrote:
i sit there and twiddle while watching tv.

makes it second nature. anyone can do it, just have to feel the rubber with your finger instantly, and it moves.

shhh there may be kids looking

I tend to twiddle a bit more in a doubles game as I have more time

_________________
Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
Table Tennis abbreviations, and acronyms


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2011, 06:44 
Offline
Horse Hockey!
User avatar

Joined: 03 Dec 2009, 03:25
Posts: 978
Location: North Carolina, USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 30 times
Joo Se Kev wrote:
@cyber1call, I do the same thing. Being in the USA, I rarely have opportunity to drill at the club, so I'm reduced to using matches against weaker players as "training." Playing entire games with the racket switched around is a great way to force you to learn new strokes. Another more difficult thing I do from time to time is to attempt to twiddle on every shot for the whole game. Still working on that one though :lol:

A fun drill I've tried a time or two with a willing LP partner is to play practice rallies where you MUST use the pips only on all shots (or inverted only)--no chicken wings allowed. It is harder than it sounds!

 

_________________
Giant Dragon Kris Special : RITC 802 w/Dawei 2.2 35d fh : : Donic Blue Fire M3 2.0 black bh
Member of Charlotte Table Tennis Club, Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
Visit Charlotte Table Tennis Club on Facebook


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011, 07:55 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2008, 21:06
Posts: 1213
Location: England
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Robot Blocker wrote:
Nice one Joo, -a good read, my problem being a s/h is i often catch my index finger when twiddling ( i have long digits!), still struggling with what to do about that, although i often twiddle after serve effectively, i find it hard to do during points (speed being a problem) and have sometimes found myself in "no man's land"!

Sadly, i persevere, but badly!

Any hints would help! ;)


Link posted by Dtopspirit in answer to a question about twiddling on here.

http://tabletennis.about.com/od/longpim ... widdle.htm

there's a video demonstrating it.

_________________
Equipment Review Index
Joola Turbo: FH: Joola Peking (2mm) , BH: Joola Peking (2mm)
Another one bites the dust.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011, 09:39 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31681
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1550 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
Thread stickied.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011, 09:51 
Offline
Smack Attack!
Smack Attack!
User avatar

Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 15:39
Posts: 3489
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 51 times
haggisv wrote:
Thread stickied.

Yes some great information here, I think practice twiddling while watching TV and when not playing is a great way to gain confidence, I remember watching a vid of Steve Hall twiddling in a match , however I think he overdid it and seemed to loose the points on the inverted backhands too much

_________________
Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
Table Tennis abbreviations, and acronyms


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011, 10:32 
Offline
The Pied Pipper
The Pied Pipper
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 23:16
Posts: 1318
Location: Somewhere out there!
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 33 times
antipip wrote:
Robot Blocker wrote:
Nice one Joo, -a good read, my problem being a s/h is i often catch my index finger when twiddling ( i have long digits!), still struggling with what to do about that, although i often twiddle after serve effectively, i find it hard to do during points (speed being a problem) and have sometimes found myself in "no man's land"!

Sadly, i persevere, but badly!

Any hints would help! ;)


Link posted by Dtopspirit in answer to a question about twiddling on here.

http://tabletennis.about.com/od/longpim ... widdle.htm

there's a video demonstrating it.


Many thanks ap, tis a good vid, some pointers there for me to work on, thanks too DTop, nice one dude!

_________________
_________________
Think, before you drink, before you write!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2012, 17:00 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 16:46
Posts: 150
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 4 times
Blade: Joola Rossi Emotion
FH: T05
BH: Tibhar 1Q
Hello
I use Stiga Active Master flared with Sriver on FH and Super Anti BH. I twiddle a lot like serving no spin from my BH, returns are usually to my BH side where I twiddle to spin loop kill it with my Sriver. During chop/underspin rallies I twiddle after every other stroke to confuse opponents and I wait for a pop up to be killed. Twiddling between strokes sometimes scares my opponents enough to create an unforced error. I also try to twiddle some in my high toss serve with the intent to confuse my opponent, but often times miss my serve completely he he he. I twiddle to get to use my Sriver on FH and BH. I am still developing my smash using the anti on FH and BH.

The twiddling guide is really a big help to my self taught twiddling style. I did not realize there was so much more to learn about this technique. Now I have a ready reference on the Science of Twiddling.

I really appreciate the time and effort invested in the preparation of the Twiddling Guide.

Thank you and God bless

_________________
Joola Rosskopf Emotion, FH T05 black, BH Nittaku Moristo DF red


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: