OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hey again guys
I wanna ask sth.. Sometimes I see defenders do a chop but when the opponent lifts the ball, it will pop up and killed mercilessly. I believe this is the technique of varying the spin called chop-floating.
I searched for the forum yet found nothing (or maybe I am not accurate enough in searching) about this, google proves to be helpless too.

So once again, my question is :
How to do the chop float ?

I already have sth in mind but I dunno if it is right. To do the chop float somehow the pips must be sunken into the ball by pressuring the ball forward when chopping. Theoritecally correct but I am not totally sure since it is my hypothesis.

Thanks in advance

Moved the thread myself. Sorry for the wrong 'ball' placement

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GFoT |Blade : Timo Boll ALC • FH : DHS 3 Neo Provincial MAX • BH : Tenergy 64 MAX
Crossover to Takeover!

i think this might only work when they give you a backspin ball, where you would pretend to chop bit in reality you are pushing punching

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Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
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BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

If you make contact with the ball towards the top of the paddle, the result will be not to impart much spin. So, if you can imagine starting your chopping motion but then, instead of grazing the ball like you normally would on a chop, simply tap it with the top of the paddle (I mean top when you're holding it sideways, like you would on any chop), and then continue your follow-through to fake out your opponent. You can do this both with pips and with inverted (though I actually find it a bit easier with inverted). The tricky part is having the angle right, because if your paddle is too open, the ball will obviously sail off the table since you're not actually chopping it. It takes a lot of practice to do this consistently, and the angle at which you will have to hold your paddle is probably a bit different depending on which side you're using. (You can also fake a push the same way, incidentally.) Also, there isn't just one way to accomplish this result, so I don't want you to think this is THE way to do it.

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very hard to do with long pips...doesn't matter the sponge thickness.....can only manipulate a little bit....

the shorter the pips the easier this is to do...

just add or subtract wrist from your chop using the same amount of body to make it look the same.

forehand inverted chop is the easiest to perform this shot

Agreed; it's much easier with inverted, but it can definitely be done with long pips as well.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

3 different answers here and none are incorrect.

The easiest and most natural to do with LP is decoy's suggestion. Chopping (well I think we are probably really talking pushing here) backspin with LP will pretty much take off the spin and return a floating or no spin ball (spin will vary slightly depending on which LP).

TraditionalTradesman's answer is a lot harder to execute and requires a deft touch and a slight of hand!

Leatherback's answer really only expands on TT's answer to clarify how much harder this action is. I think I would describe TT's solution as something of a light flick disguised to be push or chop.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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jesus and i though i was a pips newbie..

anyway even from what i said when pushing backspin with pips the ball seems to go quite high.
espescialy with pips that have very little grip, this would only really be a significant strategy with grippy Lp's like C&F3 Ck531a. these types of lps seem better at pushing the ball

Lps like Dtecs and Double Fish 1615 the ball would just pop up too high
( that would be dtecs and 1615 in ox version) dont know what they play like with sponges)

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my youtube channel
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Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

I see Thanks for the answers.

I think its already well known to intermediate players that backspin pushed with long pips will result in an almost no-spin ball which will contains very little topspin when it bounce on the table.

I found pushing with lp the easiest thing to do, and I could direct the ball wherever I want.
I would always start the bat perpendicular to the table when the ball is no-spin (aka very little topsin) and push normally with the finish position of a normal inverted push. The same goes with a backspin ball but with more open bat angle. This helps the pips to bend without losing any consistency. Waitta second why I am writing a tutorial now..

So I think I should change the title to clarify. My bad.
Backhand LP Technique - How to Fake a Chop off a Topspin ?

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GFoT |Blade : Timo Boll ALC • FH : DHS 3 Neo Provincial MAX • BH : Tenergy 64 MAX
Crossover to Takeover!

back spin, its very difficult to push a topspin. the ball would just glide through the rubber( i think , need to double check)..

anytime you use pips on topspin apart from choping you will get a backspin ball.

when recieving a backspin ball the ball will tend to top up with topspin.. this is the only real scenario where you can aply the facke chop/block, or chop block.
here you would precede with a chopping motion, without actually chopping the ball, instead you push or somewhat touch the ball very softly due to the fact when blocking backspin balls or pushing them with pips the ball tends to jump quite high

_________________
my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

Why would you not get backspin using pips to chop a topspin ball? This is one of most LPs forte`s (although controlling it is another issue).

Now that Yosua has changed the title, faking a chop with LP while playing topspin is not an easy thing to do at all, except to still use the method TraditionalTradesman described and even then thats not necessarily going to work very well unless the topspin is very light. Depending on how heavy the topspin is you will generally have to work hard on the ball to keep it low and returning to the opponents side. This takes some kind of blocking, chopping or chop-blocking action and won't end up as a fake underspin ball, but as a true underspin ball. If the topspin is light you may be able to lift the ball back over the net without imparting much spin, but this needs to be very low or risks being smashed rather easily.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

sorry meant to say chopping and blocking.

_________________
my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

That's correct, and I should've said this myself. I would never try a fake chop against very heavy topspin because the chances of success there are minimal. As RebornTTEvnglist said, I find that the fake works best against light topspin. The ideal time to do it is often in response to your opponent's opening loop, which is often not as heavy as subsequent loops. Let's say, for instance, you serve a long underspin serve, he loops it to you, you scramble backwards and then give him what looks like a chop but is really closer to a put-back, just letting the ball sail onto the table. If it helps, think of this, really, as a low lob, except that you're disguising it by embedding it within your chopping motion. It took me a LOT of practice to get the angle right on these shots (and about 10% of the time, I'll still mess them up), but they are very rewarding, because if you can make your opponent overshoot the table on the next loop, you'll start getting into his head a bit. On the next point, perhaps, really dig into the ball on a chop, and if he puts it into the net, then you're going to get him playing more tentatively, losing a bit of confidence in his game. You should definitely not overuse this kind of fake, because if your opponent starts recognizing it for what it is, he can really attack it. But I do find that even very good players will often make mistakes in response to fake chops.

As I also said above, this shot is easiest to do with inverted. With pips, it's a bit harder to get no-spin off a loop, but you can definitely VARY the spin, and often, that's enough to generate a miss. But the angle at which you have to hold your blade with the pips side out to have the ball sail back onto the table with minimal spin is much less forgiving. This is because the trajectory of the ball when you tap it (rather than chopping it) with pips is going to be a straight line, not an arc, so there's naturally less margin for error. Anyway, if you wanted to practice these shots, I would definitely start with the inverted side. To get the feel of it, have your opponent loop to you and then simply float it back onto the table a bunch of times (without faking a chop) to get a good feel for it, and when you have the right feeling, then do the same thing but as part of a chopping motion. As I said, the easiest way to do this (for me) is to let the ball contact your paddle towards the top third of the rubber and then keep going with your follow-through.

_________________
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II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
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Awesome
I think I will train for the method sir Chopoleon Bonaparte said
Wow guys, varying the spin turns out to be more complicated than the way it sounds eh ?

_________________
GFoT |Blade : Timo Boll ALC • FH : DHS 3 Neo Provincial MAX • BH : Tenergy 64 MAX
Crossover to Takeover!

Oh, and how does chopping a bit sideway in the end, both with or without wrist sound ?
You know, trading the backspin with the sidespin, adding bewilderment on the opponent

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GFoT |Blade : Timo Boll ALC • FH : DHS 3 Neo Provincial MAX • BH : Tenergy 64 MAX
Crossover to Takeover!

Yes, adding sidespin to the mix always helps. It generates a lot of errors as well. One particular shot I've been working on lately is, when my opponent gives me a light loop toward the middle of the table, twiddling so the inverted side is on my backhand and then chopping under the ball with the inverted side in a sweeping, counterclockwise motion (think of forming a smiling mouth shape, going from left to right). I'll usually direct the ball toward my opponent's forehand with this shot, so that when he loops again, he often fails to compensate sufficiently for the extreme sidespin and the ball misses the table and sails off to my right. My opponents' error rates when I do this right are probably about close to 70%, because it's such an unusual-looking shot. But I'm still working on minimizing my own errors when I try this. This is part of why I love chopping. You can play a lot of mind games.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX