OOAK Table Tennis Forum

hello,
yesterday i was on my match and i lost 1 of 2 matches but our team lost 8-2
they were strong but the most of them (3), 1 of my openents, played most of the time with speed. but i won against him and i thougt on that what my trainer said to me:
"Spin can be much more stronger than Speed! You have the quality of playing with spin, you can perform it!"
Since yesterday i cannot stop thinking about it and i think i will developp my game in to this direction because i saw yesterday that spin could be very strong!!

what do you think?

If you're looking at high level play, then spin is probably going to be more important for almost all players. The notable exceptions to this rule are short pips players, who play a pretty pure speed game, but have the advantage of also having extremely high control, so their placement of the ball makes up for the lack of spin on it.

I don't think speed is necessarily a bad thing, but as you start to play against more skilled opponents, just smashing away won't get you anywhere, whereas you can make even the best players mess up with, say, a perfectly executed sidespin loop or a really heavy backspin chop.

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Jpen: Galaxy 982 juniper 8mm- Darker Provine Tension-50 2.2 or Tibhar Torpedo Soft 2.2
Shake OFF: Galaxy T8 ST- FH: Darker PT-50 2.2, BH: Juic Varites 1.5
Shake DEF: modified Joo- FH: Reactor Corbor 2.2, BH: Globe 979 1.5

I think the opposite of Hobbes,the higher you go the more speed is the biggest factor.It's kind of a catch 22 question though because to get more speed you need to add more spin to your shots with faster handspeed and a more closed angle blade in order to get the ball fast and still come down on the table.
Spin on slow shots affects lower level players much more than higher level players for sure

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Xiom Control 3/ALL+
FH Andro impuls speed
BH sriver fx
Tibhar CTE

well then i think i'll developp my game to the "other" direction!

with controlled topspins!

have you any idea which rubber and blade i should pick on my FH?

my blade:
Donic Waldner Impuls AR

Rubber:
Sriver G2 FX (max mm)

Nope. I've played against many over 2000 players for several years now, and not one of any who play with inverted play super high speed games. It seems to me that once you get up to about 1800 or 1900 in USATT rankings, the number of players who just smash and speed loop the ball at any chance dwindles, and you see a lot more players that always keep the ball spinning to leave no chance for their opponent to flat-out end the point.

Plus, a good number of these guys, myself included, can block or lob back very fast shots quite easily, so 1600 players that just stand there flailing away to get the ball moving as fast as they can end up losing very quickly.
Sure, almost all of us still play fast games, but we could all play the same game at a lower speed and it wouldn't make much of a difference against anyone but much lower level players who have trouble even getting to the ball in time. Without either high spin to prevent easy wide attacks or other point-ending shots or high control to place the ball in very awkward places, speed is basically useless for a bit below my level and up.

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Jpen: Galaxy 982 juniper 8mm- Darker Provine Tension-50 2.2 or Tibhar Torpedo Soft 2.2
Shake OFF: Galaxy T8 ST- FH: Darker PT-50 2.2, BH: Juic Varites 1.5
Shake DEF: modified Joo- FH: Reactor Corbor 2.2, BH: Globe 979 1.5

I'd think both Hobbes and Alfie have valid points, but I'm not sure there is a clearcut answer to this question. Ultimately, I'd have to argue that speed does win out over spin because the problem with spin is that it can always be returned with the correct technique, whereas with speed, it is possible to make a shot that is too fast to return. The catch-22 that Alfie mentioned is a very good point though: often the fastest shot will be the spinniest as well. This makes sense with what Hobbes is saying because at the higher levels, there is less opportunity to play the fastest shot (smash) because your opponent will be able to keep the ball low enough to make it a very low percentage shot.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: hypothetically, if I could choose a shot knowing for certain that it would land where I wanted, then I would pick a smash over a very high spin loop. I think a vast majority of players (from the best in the world to the typical basement player) would have more trouble with a pure smash then a super spinny shot. The basement player would not even be able to touch the ball, so he wouldn't even get a chance, and the world-class player would be used to dealing with tons of spin and would be much more limited in shot selection against a smash then he would be against a loop.

I'm speaking in broad terms and am generalizing quite a bit, but I think that hypothetically speaking, speed is superior.

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This topic is very interesting and both sides of the argument have merit.

From my perspective it is neither more of an advantage to have a stronger spin game, or a stronger speed game, at a high level.

It is absolutely critical though that you have the ability to play with either heavy spin or heavy speed when you want to. At the very highest level, it is subtle variations that draw errors from your opponent. So if you have the ability to change the spin, speed, and direction of your strokes then you have a massive advantage, and have a realistic chance of reaching a high standard of play. Without this ability, then you will struggle to impove beyond a certain point.

I have had the opportunity to play some pretty advanced players both in Asia and Europe, and it can be daunting when they draw an error from you when you dont know what happened. Basically, they were better at slightly varying their strokes than what I was capable of picking up, so this caused me to make mistakes. Hence, variation is the key, rather than being very good at either spin or speed.

Forehandflick.

An excellent post, cheers forehandflick!

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I don't think speed and spin are mutually exclusive.

but if i were to pick between the two.. id vote for spin over speed.. because i assume speed means no spin, and there's nothing more dangerous to execute than no spin smashes that get blocked very easily and the ball comes back just as fast...

all you have to do to block a fast smash is just to put ur racket in the way, and the ball goes back just as fast.

blocking spinny attacks on the other hand takes reading (of the spin), a certain skill in absorbing and redirecting the spin, anticipation of ball bounce, and in general a much weaker block.

add to this the element of uncertainty (varying the spin) and it brings the game to a whole new level.

especially if you add the third variable: placement.

I'll add in sixpence here and say that as a player gets used to another players spin, the spin seems to have less effect on them. A smash that is easily blocked is of very little use, but a smash that is well placed (and perhaps deceptively cut across in the opposite direction to where it seemed to be going) is pretty hard to get a bat on. I am a player who relies on spin a lot and loves to win a point by seeing the opposition underestimate the cut put on it and has the ball dive into the net. Tabletennis is a combination of speed and spin and to play without one of them leaves you underdeveloping one. For example if you get in a rally of smash and block often your body will end up jerking the 3rd, 4th, 5th smash off the table or into the net. But if you have a player pushed way back from the table for this and can lay a soft cut on it then he won't have much chance to reach the ball and if he does stretching without power it will dive into the net anyway. Doing this require great mental discipline though as we tend to love the rush of the smash and when we get the chance to do it 5 times in a row, adrenelin makes it hard to pull back and play with percentage strategy. Of course, I'm no expert, LOL.

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I think this is a great question that you will never get the same repley,but what do you think would be most important to a new player like me who has been playing a year or less.For me its spin on the serve,it took me 6 months of coaching to be able to read a serve(still get some serves wrong)but the rest of the game is a mixture of spin & speed,but for me i think speed comes out on top.

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1.American Hinoki W.R.C blade with Red Tenergy 2.1mm on my f.h Black Galaxy Apollo Tuned 2.2mm on my b.h

well today our club had a new player! a player who comes from germany!
he is really good!
now i've seen how high my level was against such players ...
in the classement i am, i'm one of the best, but for my age i must be at least 2 classements higher but i started late with table tennis!

his game was based on spin:
really good serves with spin
amazing topspins (the most had sidespin)
choping also good

but he could also play with speed:
high balls (10 cm over the net)

spin would be better....if you can disguise your spin trhough speed would be even better