OOAK Table Tennis Forum

so i've recently got a sheet of P-1R for my backhand, and have started to play modern defense. the control lp offers compared to inverted is amazing, i have never been able to get so many balls back consistently. but some of my chops tend to go a little high, or when they are lower, too long or into the net. i think it is because i haven't got the hang of the bat angle. how it supposed to be? open for faster shots, closed for spinnier shots? thanks anyways

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Blade: Donic Waldner Senso Ultra Carbon
FH: Rakza 7 Soft
FH: Curl P-1R

There are two variables--speed (or alternately, where you have to catch the ball, close or far) and spin--that affect how you should chop.

If your opponent makes a slower shot without much spin that you need to take close the table, you'll need to cut under the ball with a pretty open angle, almost like a push, digging the ball into the pips so they bend and the ball contacts the sides, which will help add backspin to it.

If it's a slow loop that you take close to the table, you should close the angle a bit more, but still chop with a sort of diagonally down-forward motion, aiming to just graze the tops of the pips to maximize the reversal, and give it enough pace to make it to the other side. In this case as well as the above one, you want to catch the ball before it drops below the table, as it will arc too high if you don't.

If your opponent makes a faster shot, you'll need to back up considerably to take the ball. For a shot without much spin, like a smash, you'll need to cut very sharply under the ball. You'll likely be forced to catch it a bit higher, but you still want to get to it as low as you possibly can. Again, you need to dig into the pips to add spin. Your aim here is to make the shot very flat, so it skids off the table. This is the hardest to pull off, but it's very rewarding when you get it right.

Against fast loops, you want to catch the ball very low (often around knee height), using a very full swing, mostly neutral (straight up and down) or slightly open angle. Your aim is to catch the corners of the pips, so that you get a combination of reversal and added spin. The shot should float up, barely clear the net, and then drop down neatly on the other side. This is your bread and butter shot, so practice it a ton.

If you're forced to chop against a fast loop or drive close to the table, your best bet is to catch the ball very shortly after the bounce with a sharp downward motion, so that you take as much pace off the ball as possible and drop it just over the net. This is probably the second most difficult thing to do, after chopping against smashes, but it can work quite well.

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Shakehand Modern Defense
Butterfly Defence Pro ST, Butterfly Tenergy 64 (1.7), TSP Curl P-1R (1.0~1.3)

cannot thank you enough, really

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OOAK Equipment Review Index
Blade: Donic Waldner Senso Ultra Carbon
FH: Rakza 7 Soft
FH: Curl P-1R

QuickDraw,

Thanks for the write-up. Twenty-five years ago, when I used to play a lot of table tennis, I chopped with anti-spin on my background, as did most defenders. Nowadays, since returning to table tennis, I am using Feint Long III 0.5mm on my background with a Butterfly Joo Sehyuk blade. I am still trying to learn some of the basic properties of long pips. My question is to what extent does your description apply to long pips with a thin sponge, such as the Feint Long III 0.5mm which I use. I assume that your description is most applicable for Feint Long III 1.3mm, as that is the sponge thickness in your signature.

Also, for my forehand, I have been using Xiom Yanus 1.5mm. For me, so far, this rubber is too fast, and difficult to control. Since you use Butterfly Tackiness Chop 1.9mm on a Joo blade, I would like to ask how good Tackiness Chop 1.9mm is for looping with that blade, both close to the table, and at a distance. I am considering whether or not to try Tackiness Chop 1.9mm or Tackiness Chop II 1.9mm.

Thanks.

Steven

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Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX 1.9mm
TSP Curl P1R 1.4-1.7mm
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Returned to table tennis September 2011
Canada National Team Member, 1973-1975
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1972-1987
Brickell Balsa/Birch 3-ply Blade
Yasaka Mark V 1.5mm
Joola Toni Hold AntiTopspin 2.5mm

My post there is applicable to any grippy long pips with 0.6 to 1.5mm sponge. I don't have any experience chopping with lower friction or OX pips, so those are probably pretty different. The differences in the strokes with thicker sponge are fairly minimal, it just means your sensitivity to spin is a little bit higher, but you can add more of your own. With harder sponged pips like P-1R it also means you need to take faster shots a little bit farther back, but Feint III's sponge is so soft that it can absorb a lot of speed.

I haven't ever played with Yanus DF myself, but judging by the ratings, Tackiness Chop is pretty much a slower version of it. Don't mistake the "Tackiness" name to mean that the rubber has a tacky topsheet; it doesn't, any initial stickiness the rubber has wears off almost immediately. It's simply a very high friction rubber. Because of the soft sponge, it pairs very nicely with the Joo, for both chopping and looping. I'd say go with 1.7mm for the added control. I'm comfortable chopping with 1.9, but from what I can tell, having a little less sponge wouldn't sacrifice much speed and spin, as that's mostly being generated by the blade and topsheet, respectively. Tackiness Chop II is a less forgiving rubber, as it has a much lower throw/flatter trajectory, and the hard sponge means it wouldn't be as nice on a hard blade like the Joo.

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Shakehand Modern Defense
Butterfly Defence Pro ST, Butterfly Tenergy 64 (1.7), TSP Curl P-1R (1.0~1.3)

How more topspin (how higher the throw mostly) how more you have to hold your bat horizontan (not very but, not vertical)
when you are close to the table you can simple push with a horizontal angle straight forward.

when you are far away try to take the ball not so high but rahter at the height of the table. and to a strong hard push.

you have to try different angles and then look wich is the best at what ball, you can even write it down!

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Btt,

I can tell you a little about yanus, although I have only played 2mm. It is actually a pretty quick rubber, a soft sponged tensor with a low throw. I think it is really more of an all-round offensive rubber that is capable of occasional defence than the other way round. It is at least as quick as mark v and loops really well on 2mm. Tackiness chop, and even Tackiness drive, will both be significantly slower on all strokes.

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Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

I just realized that I forgot to thank QuickDraw and so_devo for their helpful responses.

Two months ago, I did try Butterfly Tackiness Chop 1.7mm on my Joo Sehyuk blade, and it was way too slow for me. I then returned to using Xiom Yanus 1.5 on my forehand, and all was fine. I think that my problem with Xiom Yanus 1.5 in the past involved my recovering from a completely ruptured achilles tendon. A few months ago I could barely move, and so I was out of position on many of my forehand chops. It is of course easy to send a ball off the end of the table when chopping that way. Now, that I can move better, the control that I have with the Xiom Yanus rubber on my Joo Sehyuk blade is fine.

Thanks again,

Steven

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Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX 1.9mm
TSP Curl P1R 1.4-1.7mm
--------------
Returned to table tennis September 2011
Canada National Team Member, 1973-1975
--------------
1972-1987
Brickell Balsa/Birch 3-ply Blade
Yasaka Mark V 1.5mm
Joola Toni Hold AntiTopspin 2.5mm

Another method, to manual chopping on the 606, is to copy a single sample to several pads via Clipboard. Then adjust the start and end points. Better and quicker than Resampling, which there is a slight loss in sound.

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libra66

That must be one of the worst spam posts I've ever seen... talk about losing things in translation! User banned, but I left the post since it was so bad it's funny.

Right, back on topic

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Another way to chop away from the table, a BH chop block. I used to do this several years ago. I used a fat med LP 1.0. This technique has the paddle face tip down and makes solid contact, the ball does not float but goes in straight low line over the net. The ball is usually taken below the table. This technique gives a natural variation of spin depending how solid your contact was on the ball. The spin is very difficult to read. Spinny bullet loops can chop block easily. In my opinion this technique is easier than the more conventional method of chopping and generates lots of spin. I was able to do this technique like a robot so I very seldom missed or got the ball up high. I just recently tried this with 2.0 and after a few bucket of robot balls was able to get the consistency I had with 1.0. The rubber I have now is friendship 563-1 2.0. The advantage of this rubber over LP is control, pushing normal backspin is like inverted, hitting is easier to control than LP. This works very well with an inverted 4H especially if you can counterloop on both sides and flip sometimes which I used to do. Example, Chop block, flip, counterloop, flip, chop block, causes lots of problems. You will have to chop conventionally on the 4H side as I never learned to chop block on this side because it is much more difficult.

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Panda Drive / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max / Play right-handed
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Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed

This topic seems to be attacked a lot by weird spamming cos Lorilee96 up there had some just as bad things to say as libra66. I wonder of they are the same spammer?

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To me it is about angle and spin of the ball. I want to LP to hit the ball perpendicular to the plane the ball is traveling. For example a fast driven topspin I want to chop with the blade perpendicular to the floor and move the paddle fast from top to down. If the ball is a super slow loop and the ball is falling I want to hit it with the paddle nearly horizontal. You have to adjust the angles some based on the rubber one is using and the spin/speed of the opponents shot. I would say I never have a closed blade on a chop!

This was very enlightening to read. Thanks all!

Quickdraw's original explanation in particular is good enough to save somewhere for future reference.

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Blade: TSP Black Balsa 7.0 flared; FH Rubber - Donic Acuda S3 max sponge; BH Rubber - Speed Spectol 1.8mm

[thread_hijack]
Nothing lost in translation here actually. This post is referring to the use of the Roland sp-606, a sampling workstation/drum machine, used for producing electronic music. The bot sensed the topic was chopping and made a post about a machine for chopping up tracks for sampling.

And no, i'm not a bot. Just a table tennis player that likes electronic music. lol.

Carry on with the topic.
[/thread_hijack]

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Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
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