OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I am getting my first chinese rubber today - Hurricane 3 neo which will replace my tenergy 64 fx on the forehand as I get into an experimental mode after playing 4 tournaments over the last 4 months...

Has anyone converted from a european rubber and loop style to chinese rubber and loop style? While I know that the rubber is tackier and I am supposed to hit behind the ball more than above the ball, are there people who have made this conversion and found some nuggets that could help me?

I also know I am supposed to keep bat more open and keep elbow straight more than before. I still get a feeling this is going to be one hell of a change...

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

You should play with the rubber first, find what works, then change your stroke accordingly.

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SPW/Solo

While I'm still partial to Japanese rubbers, I've adopted more of a brush loop from using thinner and thinner sponges. It helps that the rubber I'm using has an extremely grippy topsheet, so despite the fact that it has very little tackiness to it, it works quite well for that type of stroke. As for your racket angle, swing angle, and contact point, it depends more on the specific sheet of rubber than the tackiness of the topsheet, so that just comes down to experimentation, as ilikepie said. However, if I had to take a guess, based on the fact that Hurricane 3 is pretty sensitive to incoming spin, you'll probably have to have a pretty flat swing and a contact point high on the ball when looping against topspin, and a very high swing and a contact point towards the back of the ball when looping backspin.

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Shakehand Modern Defense
Butterfly Defence Pro ST, Butterfly Tenergy 64 (1.7), TSP Curl P-1R (1.0~1.3)

I did not find H3 Neo very tacky after some use. Also did not find it very spinny. Played more like some euro rubbers.

!! I know that already! The only reason I posted this is because I am playing league tonight and want to use this. This is why I wanted to expedite my learning!

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

I can somewhat help. But not fully since I've never played with a Euro rubbber. Sorry.

But I do currently play with Hurricane 3 Neo right now.

Coming from 64fx, you might find the sponge a little hard at first. I always played tacky medium sponge Chinese rubbers before and that was my initial reaction when switching to H3 Neo. But that soon broke in with some play.

As far as bat angle, I've always found Chinese rubbers with their heavy tack to really pick up the ball. Thus I hit it long if I keep my blade too open. So I strive for a closed angle. Particularly when driving (very closed). Granted when looping against backspin, yes, a little more open.

Be sure to give us your impressions of what you think.

Update:
Just so happened to come across this video today. In the comments the kid talks about switching from Tenergy 05 to H3 Neo. Thought you might find it interesting. FYI - he's the one closest to the camera. The H3 is on his forehand. (red)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_spBO4WeHCc

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Stiga Clipper Classic
FH - TSP Spectol Red 2.0
BH - Dawei 388D-a 1.5

Played league with it and won all 3 matches! First impression - more sensitive to spin.

In a nutshell it is a high effort high return rubber. Need to put a lot more effort than 05FX to lift underspin but the result is much better especially while looping slow underspin balls. Third ball attack is much flatter and effective.

The biggest difference is when playing close to the table - flicks, pushes, serves are significantly better controlled with H3 neo than 05FX. Both rubbers are not made for flat hitting but H3 is slightly better if you read spin well. In flat hitting I always found 05FX to be very unpredictable when flat hitting and counterhitting with low spin.

I was trying to keep my arm more open and counter looping was fairly easy. Hook loops were crazy spinny. But I felt its really difficult to counterloop once the ball goes below the table at mid distance. With 05FX, this was a breeze.

So I am trying to play mostly close to the table now. Trying to move fast to get the third ball fastloop in. Still need a lot of work to return serves effectively with it .With 05FX I would loop everything without a thought. With H3neo, I really need to understand the spin on the ball to do it.. otherwise either the net or too long.

I remember making half swings and still making effective loops with the 05FX. Gone are those days, I better swing full now.

I was practicing looping against an LP chopper and my shoulder is revolting now.

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

Chinese experiment seems to be going well with the exception of a hurting back.
I think this rubber is MADE for relatively close distance counterlooping. For the first time I have sufficient courage to let go of the block, take two steps back and rip that incoming heavy loop back. Good signs

Because of brushing on FH side, my BH seems to be getting affected since the swings and hit mechanics are so different. Need to revisit BH also.

Contrary to what I have read, I am more confident with H3 than 05fx when smashing high balls. I Dont know why, maybe because of the harder sponge.

My back gave up before the 3rd match yesterday and that was after losing to two 1950+ players. But i did beat the guy i wanted to

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

Update - Failure.

I am playing at the same level with H3Neo as I was with the 64fx on my fh with serious adjustments to my technique but my lower back has given up. Its extremely painful to play with this rubber for long time given I dont have a chinese coach (or a coach). Also, without a coach I think I am doing the best I can and there doesnt seem to be clear path for improvement. The chinese loop is just way too complex to master on my own but I think I gave it a fair try and the fact that i played at the same level with such a big change should mean I did reasonably well.

Just ordered a Tenergy 05. Cancelled going to the knoxville tournament in TN. Next month target is serious serious drilling to become one with the setup - TBS with 05fx bh and 05 fh. I am planning to play a lot more over the next 20 days to drill loops and feel. And serves. And returns.

EJ phase ends here. It was small and I am sure it will return when I have more money and patience and coaching.

In the meantime, I will be selling some stuff

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

jsut a small example.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTqPBOPf ... ure=relmfu

guy in black playing penhold ( my coach)
basically you have to be quick on your feet. swing fast , take the ball early you you want it to be fast else you will have to slow loop if it dips too much.
when playing over the table, for pushes you need a lloose grip.

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my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

The thing that surprises me is that you were actually able to get up to the same level after that extreme of an equipment change. If you had been using Chinese rubber from day 1, it would be a different story. The times I have tried it I found it completely unplayable and so unpleasant I couldn't stand it for more than about 3 or 4 points!

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

My conversion story:
Some weeks ago I enjoyed my first looping/driving practice (being fed a box of balls) ever, and I was also using "Chinese-style" rubber for the first time, H3 Neo.

I developed my game (just a recreational player, a garage player) thirty years ago. I had a pretty good premade at that time. I remember the rubber was such that I had to close the blade face and drive, and I remember the feeling of the ball sinking in. Of course, I liked it because it produced an effective shot. I played with that setup for a few years.

I had read about brushing with the H3N and I had thought about it a lot. It turns out that I was able to execute it almost immediately, sweeping upward as hard as I could with the face open, and wham! it felt really good! I just imitated what I saw in Ma Lin etc. youtube videos. Incidentally, doing this with a H-WL gave great "baseball bat" feedback too.

Now, I suddenly detest the feeling of a ball sinking in. I like a cleaner release. In my mind, the normal component (the forward part almost perpendicular to the blade face) and the tangential component (the sweep that spins the ball) stay more cleanly separated and this mechanism is more comprehensible; I feel less dependent on the properties of the rubber; the ball is not "riding" the rubber so much. Of course, if you understand both of these styles you could select some intermediate blade and rubber.

I was led to a rigid blade and harder rubber by an experience I had a few weeks prior. Just starting to play table tennis again, I had bought four different blades to try to find my way to a favorite, and the first setup I tried was extremely flexy and soft. The face had to be closed very far (which introduced a different kind of difficulty), and a large fraction of the motion that adds spin also added forward speed (and upward throw), so the "spin/speed ratio" was not necessarily greater. In this specific case, just watching the hook on the ball, I know it was less than with H3N/sweep.

It seems to me that soft/drive is not easier overall. It is physically easier though. I was not looking for physical ease but for some kind of ideal or principle I could adopt, and I like the cleaner separation that I described above, including over the table and close to the net.

I'm sorry to hear that Rahul_TT gave up the experiment for the reason given. But if there is some structural (ligaments etc) weakness it could take months to build it up because those things heal and grow more slowly than muscle. I would keep a second paddle ready to go and play around with the different motion just a little at a time if the body permits. My practice and play time is once a week for three hours and I'm OK so far. Yes, the first day I was very sore.

I think the reason would be because I already have more of a brush loop than a sponge-loop. This is something I am trying to get better at since now I am back to using eure-jap rubber.

Also, I think since I play so much near the table, on the table play with hurricane is just naturally very easy including serves and returns.

Apart from these two reasons, I have to say I had to change my loop completely including finger pressure. Thats a lot of adjustment and I dont expect everyone to make such a transition immediately. Obviously it was flawed as I suffered back pain.

Also, I think the sheet that I got was on the softer side. The second sheet that I got was much harder (DHS commercial prodcuts, you know consistency issues are involved here).

I agree on the unpleasant part. Its too much effort to get a quality shot in compared to eurojap rubbers.

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.