OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi all,

I've only been playing for 2 months now, but I've decided to take an early step in to utilising a "modern defensive" style.

I play at my local club three evenings/week, receive private coaching one evening/week and get an opportunity for a lighthearted knock with students and colleagues at work three sessions/week.

Before I started receiving coaching, I decided to finalise something that had been on my mind since I started the game: I want to play in a "modern defensive" style, a la idol Joo Se-Hyuk, with a choppy backhand and an aggressive forehand.

I've been through a few different bats (first one is mine, rest borrowed.. and the one in my signature is due to arrive any day):

• STIGA Carbon Offensive Classic -> Calibra LT Sound (2mm) & Chop n' Drive (1.5mm)
• Butterfly Defence 2 -> Tackifire Drive (1.5mm) & STIGA Destroyer (1mm)
• TSP Balsa 5.5 -> Calibra LT Sound (1.8mm) & STIGA Destroyer (1.5mm)
• TSP Balsa Fibreglass 5.5 -> Xiom Omega IV Elite (1.8mm) & TSP Curl P1-R (1mm)

I'm playing in the lowest league division and have only won 6 of 18 games. My most recent victory however was against a gentleman to whom I lost in straight sets in my third week of playing, so I feel like I'm making progress. I don't care about winning or losing - in fact I'm 100% happy with losing as long as I can take something from it progress my game. Unfortunately I feel like I've lost more points than my opponents have won in some games, but that's to be expected too I suppose

So, ignoring my vast introduction, my question is this: how should I be trying to set points up for this "modern defensive" style?

I'm guessing, for instance, I should...

• Backspin serve majority of the time.. 50/50 long and short, to invite attack?
• Very occasional topspin or nospin serve to hope for a "pop-up"
• When receiving serve or a low-spin push, try to get the inverted on to it to stop the opponent from driving through a low-backspin ball

I understand the basics of my LPs and know what time of spin my opponent will be receiving from them, but haven't considered "chop blocks" or "stopping topspin" etc, though I've come across such terms on these forums.

But, short of that, I don't really have any clue how to play a defensive game! I certainly have no idea about how to "safely" get the opponent to loop to my backhand for the chop.

I've played a few opponents with my pimples, trying to forge a defensive game, and made the following observations:

• With pushes, if I can't get a lot of backspin on the ball, my opponents appear to be able to drive through me.. though this could also be my placement/height/length I guess?
• Some opponents keep putting the ball on my forehand to avoid the pimples, unless I mistakenly give them a low/nospin ball.. what do I do in this situation? I won't always be able to rely on beating offensive opponents in a forehand rally
• How far should I be away from the table, and how soon should I get there? My most regular practice partner loves to "slap" the ball, and although he spends a lot of his time fetching the ball out of the net, sometimes (I guess it's when I don't get enough backspin) he can just smash the ball past me. My blocking is reasonable and against his loops I have no problem, but those smashes are bloomin' fast..

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Duncan

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Well it just comes down to practice, I would talk to your coach and tell him what you want to do
for example in one session tell him you want to chop on the backhand for 30 mins and then do 30 mins of whatever you do on your forehand
In another session only practice being at the table pushing blocking and controlling the ball
in another practice returning serves with placement and variety etc etc

In lower leagues not everyone is going to be able to loop consistently so there is not set procedure for you to run back and chop if they can't oblige you , so you may have to be more aggressive or come to the table more
If an opponent only hits to you forehand just enjoy it as it will make it easier for you to plan attacks
against flat hitters avoid their hitting zones and or get in first
In you social games practice being positive with your backhand and try and put what you have learnt in your coaching sessions into your game

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Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
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I started 3 years ago and you sound a lot like me. I lost a LOT of matches for the first year or more. Just about everyone avoided my bh LPs and just attacked my forehand because I was determined to be aggressive and they would just let me beat myself. The solution was to work HARD on my forehand and now after I've smashed a few balls they tend to avoid the fh. In fact, I receive every serve as if I'm gonna smash it fh practically daring them to do so. So then I had the opposite problem of better players exploiting the weaknesses of LPs.

At a certain level, LP blocks and pushes become less effective, especially against hard top spin loops or even high lazy dead balls in the bh corner. I've been practicing attacking those kind of shots but also I'm increasingly backing up and doing traditional chops with the bh. That works better than trying to block a high dead ball with the LPs and can give me time to force the ball back into the strength of my forehand. But even if not, usually if I can chop it back 3-4 times in a row my opponent's going to put it into the net.

Now if I could just master the simple forehand inverted push close to the table ...

 

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Giant Dragon Kris Special : RITC 802 w/Dawei 2.2 35d fh : : Donic Blue Fire M3 2.0 black bh
Member of Charlotte Table Tennis Club, Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
Visit Charlotte Table Tennis Club on Facebook

I used to have a ton of trouble with the simple forehand push too. I took a coaching session where I really worked on this, and what helped me was to focus on getting really low, and concentrating on getting under the ball. By focusing on hitting the bottom of the ball, it helped me to get low. I also worked on moving in and taking the ball at the top of the bounce, which also helps.

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"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Thanks all.

I'm not too bothered about winning the D4 matches with good LP technique, I'd just like to start trying to think about how I'd form a game against good opponents.. and I'll implement as much of that as I can at my current level, before hopefully moving up the ladder in a while.

Is there a "knack" to the inverted push then? I seem to be semi-successful by stabbing down the back of the ball (often resulting in a table contact with the bat, but I can live with that). I'm not sure how consistent that is though.

In terms of placement, should I be trying to put the ball mid/long on my opponent's forehand with as much backspin as I can manage?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

One thing a coach demonstrated to me makes sense for the fh push. Do a "shadow" push over the table. Notice where the blade stops moving. You CANNOT successfully push the ball at that point because the blade has STOPPED and has no momentum. You are at the mercy of whatever spin is on the ball. To push consistently, the ball must hit the blade DURING THE STROKE while the blade is moving forward (or perhaps sideways at least). Now I'm not a tall person so sometimes on a really short ball I just can't reach in far enough and that is when I have the most trouble. Fortunately, an opponent has to be pretty good to drop a ball low enough and short enough to cause that problem consistently. If they can, I'm in trouble!

 

_________________
Giant Dragon Kris Special : RITC 802 w/Dawei 2.2 35d fh : : Donic Blue Fire M3 2.0 black bh
Member of Charlotte Table Tennis Club, Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
Visit Charlotte Table Tennis Club on Facebook