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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012, 14:26 
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hookshot wrote:
Have someone watch your pushes to see when you are actually making contact. It is VERY hard to make contact "right off the bounce". It might "feel" like you are taking it off the bounce but you need an observer to really tell. Like two or three inches after the bounce. The stroke will be ONLY two or three inches long, in line with the direction you want it to go,. The bat will be VERY close to the table. Here is a good tip, "Let the bat do the work". If done right after the bounce, there is no room to add any chop with the wrist. You will get plenty of backspin with no wrist if taken right off the bounce. Another tip, get the bat in front of the ball BEFORE contact. (Footwork) Try NOT to reach, move in front of the ball.
My coach probably spent 15% of my time on this shot. On short chop serves or pushes, you NEED this shot! Another option is a banana flip which I am still working on. :)

Great tips hookshot! :up: :up: :up:

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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2012, 00:06 
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Yes a lot of sense in what Hookshot has said there. I think you can feel the way the ball bites your rubber harder when you take the ball immediately off the bounce versus at a later point (without your own effort biting the rubber into the ball that is).

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2013, 15:49 
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THE GAMEr had asked this important Question:
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A question for the LPers: how different is pushing with LP than with inverted?


I am launching my LP career this week, and would appreciate some wisdom!

:clap:

P.S., the video of Ma Lin pushing so easily with that much backspin, is that level of spin enhanced by having rubbers that are "boosted, tuned, tampered with?" Have we not all seen a video of recent pros juicing their rubbers before every match?

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2013, 16:07 
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Nah, that is just a product of perfect touch and timing. You can do that with any reasonably grippy rubber if you are that good. Boosting mainly aids looping/loop-driving.


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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2013, 18:45 
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Good choppers seem to get impossible spin all the time, I swear I can hit a ball twice as quickly and make half the spin as most good choppers do :!. Carbonman is worse because you don't know what spin the ball has on it :p and THEN it's impossibly heavy which makes it twice as heavy since you weren't sure it was going to be..... :P :swear: :up:

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013, 03:14 
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@foam
I feel its because of the angle of contact. Good pushes are actually where the bat is parallel to balls direction. Just like a heavy underspin short serve. Its difficult because the contact is so thin. Good push utilizes that same concept of small angle and thin contact.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013, 04:41 
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That is why taking a ball off the bounce gives more spin. The ball is coming up so the angle between blade and ball direction is thinner than if you wait. :)


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013, 10:09 
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hookshot wrote:
That is why taking a ball off the bounce gives more spin. The ball is coming up so the angle between blade and ball direction is thinner than if you wait. :)


I'm going to study this next time I see a good chopper in action.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013, 10:20 
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I find this discussion fascinating.

I'm a local league player, I've only been playing for around 5 months now.

I'm playing in the lowest division, which is quite a mixed bag in terms of ability. I've played against 13 year olds who have never played a competitive game before, and a 40 year old who last played in our local league's top division.

Thus far, overall, I have a 40% ratio - but in the second half of the season I'm on 100% and have already beaten players that I lost to earlier on.

Now, I don't say that to sound arrogant (its really not much of a brag anyway!) but to make a point about players pushing.

I've played countless players that love to loop and drive in practice, but get into matches and they simply can't seem to take the initiative.

Personally, I know my pushing is poor, especially in comparison to someone playing with OX short pimples on both sides. As such, I seek to avoid pushing wherever possible. 99% of all serves at this level are long and as a result I'm winning my games simply by hitting a heavy spin topspin (even without pace) on every long serve.

I can't understand why a new player would try to out-push players who have equipment and experience better suited to that stroke.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013, 11:18 
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@dunc

I think the answer is because a push is an extremely dynamic stroke if u use it well. You have more open angles than a loop because its a safer shot. You can easily vary spin. You can dictate the rally if you are a control player. You can also play great drop shots. You can long push into the elbow. The biggest advantage is that if u play a good push - placement speed or spin - he will push weak and therefore your attack is much stronger.

At lower levels a good push is indispensable for these reasons. At higher levels even the best long pushes get attacked with ferocity but thats why at higher levels short pushing is extremely important.

Another thing - at lower level consistency wins the game not power. You can see this by analysing any video and counting reasons for points. This is why a good push increases your consistency and reduces opponents'.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013, 11:26 
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Don't get me wrong Rahul, I'm not suggesting that the push isn't a useful tool - it clearly is. Many players say that the difference between a good player and a top player is their push/short game.

However, that's not the issue I'm referring to. The players I witness looping/driving day in, day out in practice aren't particularly good pushers. They're not pushing in their competitive games because they're reverting to their superior push to win games. I suspect they're doing it because they lack the confidence to attempt a loop/drive on a long serve or push.

My opponent on Thursday for instance is my regular playing partner. I've probably played 40 hours with him. In practice, I can honestly say I've never seen him push. He first and third ball attacks better than me and hits the ball incredibly hard. However, in a match situation, he tenses up and reverts to almost constant pushing. I beat him in straight sets and after the game he simply smiled and said "you attacked first".

In addition, I've always been told that you should attack a long ball. Pushing a long ball is much harder to do and much less likely to be successful in terms of your opponent not attacking it, no? I don't attack short balls, as I have no real ability to flick/flip.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013, 19:12 
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Wish I could push :)


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013, 19:41 
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dunc, you will never out push a long time pusher as a beginner so the best option is to overpower them. On the other hand an experienced player will just stand at the table and move you around in awkward ways with spin and pace variations and you will magically just have "a bad night" without even having known why. Thats when you really know there's a huge gap between players.

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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2013, 05:04 
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dunc wrote:
Don't get me wrong Rahul, I'm not suggesting that the push isn't a useful tool - it clearly is. Many players say that the difference between a good player and a top player is their push/short game.

However, that's not the issue I'm referring to. The players I witness looping/driving day in, day out in practice aren't particularly good pushers. They're not pushing in their competitive games because they're reverting to their superior push to win games. I suspect they're doing it because they lack the confidence to attempt a loop/drive on a long serve or push.

My opponent on Thursday for instance is my regular playing partner. I've probably played 40 hours with him. In practice, I can honestly say I've never seen him push. He first and third ball attacks better than me and hits the ball incredibly hard. However, in a match situation, he tenses up and reverts to almost constant pushing. I beat him in straight sets and after the game he simply smiled and said "you attacked first".

In addition, I've always been told that you should attack a long ball. Pushing a long ball is much harder to do and much less likely to be successful in terms of your opponent not attacking it, no? I don't attack short balls, as I have no real ability to flick/flip.


I think there is a lot of value in controlling how a point plays out. At times (not always and definitely not in practice), its better for me to push that long ball back and heavy in a place that either my opponent can't attack it or attacks it weakly so I win the point by either counterlooping or punch blocking. This plays into my natural strength - blocking.

Waldner did this a whole lot and while this has lost some relevance with super rubbers coming out lately, at lower levels point control is a tremendous advantage.

In practice, no doubt you should be attacking it every single time. In match, you need the play that gives you the best chance of winning that point.

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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2013, 05:05 
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foam wrote:
dunc, you will never out push a long time pusher as a beginner so the best option is to overpower them. On the other hand an experienced player will just stand at the table and move you around in awkward ways with spin and pace variations and you will magically just have "a bad night" without even having known why. Thats when you really know there's a huge gap between players.


+1

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