OOAK Table Tennis Forum

In interest of creating some good discussion about the game itself (plus I'd like to know basic pushing strategies), where do you push to? far to the corners? short to the sides? short or far to the opponents crossover?

And how fast do you make the stroke? fast pushes or slow pushes?

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Pushing is something that differs from player to player and style to style I think...and also changes as your level changes. Pushing in certain ways at higher levels will get you destroyed, where you could get away with it at lower levels. At my level I try to make my pushes difficult for the opponent to get any traction in their return shot. This means reading how they are positioned to receive my push and playing it in a kind of penetrating way that will give them trouble. Most of my pushes these days are either a roll off the pips, a sharp angle off the pips, or some kind of chop from my FH rubber designed to be heavily laiden with underspin to be hard to attack. Many of the players I play can still attack heavy underspin if its in the right place for them, so I also try to place it either short, or make them reach for it. Often a push that has a quick change in bat direction can be reasonably effective too. ie. Look like you are about to push to their FH and at the last second direct it down the BH for example.

Its a good topic that you have raised here Gamer, I hope it does get a number of good responses. It is always interesting to read different ideas to think about to improve your game, even if its only by a small margin.

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S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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Here is what I try to do (not always what happens though )

Short push - mostly use on serve return but I am still learning. Sometimes I like to do a drop push kind of a shot where I let the underspin on the ball do enough to just drop past the net. I do this on my bh to the opponents fh. Somehow a lot of loopers find this truly irritating.

Long push - I used to be a blocker/pusher so I have good heavy long pushes. I use them based on who I am playing. Certain players just love spin and use it to their advantage but others like driving and I use heavy pushes a lot against them. You can notice such players that dont have big backswings to lift heavy underspin. They typically don't put spin even on their pushes because thats not what they need on the ball. Such players typically return heavy pushes with less heavy long pushes which are easy to open on.

Direction - more than the opponents position I like to push against his body movement. My theory here is that since push is a slower stroke, its difficult to deceive just by opponents position. I don't know if this is the best thing to do though but against heavy loopers (which I play a lot against), spin doesn't matter much so placement is paramount. So I try to push against their movement. This is also because I have good soft blocks because of my blocking history. So a well placed heavy push is a good play in my current game but as I try to become more aggressive, it will have lesser prominence I presume.

Usage - I dont have a strong bh opening loop so I push heavy underspin balls on bh. In serious matches, I don't push long forehand at all. Also I am learning bh flick so that I have more options on serve return.

I don't fake direction a lot but try to make a shorter quicker forearm/wrist movement instead. I dont like to have long sweeping push action.

Around 4-5 years back, me and my friend used to do a lot of heavy push against heavy push drills. they are not useful if you are an aggressive player but since I was a blocker back then, now I can heavy push pretty much any underspin ball.

In general, I think long heavy push is an under-estimated stroke in table tennis unless you are 2000+ USATT.

Hope that helps!

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When I was a double inverted player, I used the PUSH (not chop) to set up my FH attack. Pushing to transition zones or to the inside/outside part of the elbow, anywhere where it would disrupt or limit an attack, unless I wanted the attack to go towards my FH so that I might counter and controll the attack. I would also not try to push with MORE backspin or try to creat more because I would often get a net ball. My Pushes were fast with inverted using faster inverted with my BH or flipping to my FH inverted which was often different. When I played with ANTI I would almost always push off serve and push with a knuckle ball. Now with LP ox on my BH I will push deep to the corners or start off with an inverted chop serve and push with inverted for a few shots then flop to the LP and if I read any backspin, roll a soft ball or attack with a medium speed shot. (lifting). Pushing was for a long time the staple of many players to set up the big LOOP. Pushing I think is a lost art for some. When I train a new player I tend to start off with pushing to get a feel of control and success. It.s like taking a kid fishing and dont have the right bait, the fish are not biting, so it kinda sucks..start with the basics and work from there. * pushing is also a test of attrition, try doing some drills pushing with both BH and FH, ***not as easy as you might think. Try this in you 2nd game next time you play. short chop serve or dead ball serve to start the push going, dont try to over push, just push it around the center to the outside of the elbow. do this for at least 3-5 times, then push center...then FH attack.

Peace GIG

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Some interesting thoughts here. I've been pushing rather "safely", but I need to get better at placement. For some reason, a lot of the pushes at my club are long (off the table), even though they are pretty good players (USA 1800-1900)

I like to push until I get a long one in a spot here I can easily loop it. I guess I push pretty consistently, but not too dangerously.

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This is a very common approach by players up to a certain level but unfortunately it tends to retard a player's development/improvement. With a bit of practice and reasonable footwork virtually every long push is easily loopable. If you play a reasonably developed player and push until you get 'the right ball to loop' that ball will never come as your opponent will get in first. Better to try to loop every long serve and long push and not worry about losing in the short term. Eventually it will pay off for you.

Pushing is something you just have to learn early on. When pushing you should get to a point where you have good touch, control and spin; and make extremely few unforced errors. As they improve players usually seek to take the ball very early (if you take the ball late it is difficult to keep the ball short and safe) and with a relatively simple short swing. Except for the occasional deep heavy pushes most should land short so they can't be looped.

Most of you have probably seen this but it a great example of a push taken very early with a very simple swing.

When starting out in this sport, pushing with the backhand is a vital skill, especially if you're learning without much or any coaching. The reason I think it's vital is because when you start playing in a club you'll be faced with the majority of your opponent's having good pushing (defending) skills. I am assuming that when you first start out you've joined a relatively low division where defensive play totally outweighs attacking play. Pushing also teaches you the fundamentals of slow, controlling play and the nature of spin. So, what I'm suggesting is that there is no way to avoid pushing rallies when you first start playing competitively.

As you get better, the pushing game becomes less effective. Of course, there will always be times when you have to know how to effectively push, i.e. short returns, but as you progress through the divisions the game becomes more attacking, unless you're a defensive player, i.e. chopper or block-positioner.

So, pushing is a vital skill to master but it's also one that you may have to consciously withdraw from if you want to advance up the divisions. I don't think I'm wrong in thinking that eventually pushing the ball will only be a small part of your game, because attackers usually win.

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Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
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While you are not wrong exactly here Oskar, but I will say that attackers only usually win if they are much stronger and very consistent in their attacks on defenders. I don't know what defenders you have come up against, but I have come up against some defenders who are so good at defending attacks and placing the ball with bounce and spin that must be carefully dealt with that they simply wear you down or push you to error. Our member here Retriever I believe is one such creature, so I'm sure he will attest to what I am saying. We have a team of 3 defenders in my comp (which I'm sure you've read about in my blog) who have these traits. Now I'm not saying even these guys push a lot, cos they don't. They push when forced to by a drop shot, otherwise they are backed off the table chopping or side-spinning lobs back at you. But what I can tell you is with guys like these, attackers don't always or even usually win. They have trotted up and down the divisions from A4 to A2 and back and right now top our A4 table and the leading player stats. They had 2 seasons in A2 where most the players would match or better your best attackers in your A1. Our A3 players would most likely be the same. Yet these guys spent about 5 or 6 seasons (18 months) between going up from A4 to being beaten back down to A4, and are probably going back to A3 again next season. They come up against a lot of good attackers, but better a heck of a lot of them. There are other examples of defenders who win a lot like this too...look at Ivana Trnka next time you are at a Vets.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

That's a really good point. I guess I might have to try that. Thanks!

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Happy Holidays 'round the world!

@ Reborn: I was just suggesting that statistically attackers usually win. At club level, these statistics might be slightly different, but I would guess that a competent attacker will usually defeat a competent defender - I know that's the case statistically at the Ballarat club.

I suppose I'm kind of echoing Carbonman's sentiment when I suggest that - if you can - try and be an attacker, because unless you're a super-duper defender you'll just end up playing high risk shots (unless you got those evil pips, like Reborn ).

And, anyway, what's the fun in winning by forcing errors?

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Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

That's a great clip of a great push carbonman! I must practice that... see if I can make it that heavy!

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So I do kinda have trouble keeping my pushes short...do you just move your racket slower? should I change my racket angle?

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The bat angle will be largely dependent on the spin on the incoming ball but obviously your contact has to be fairly fine.

Although some balls you can sort of dink over the net, in general you want to take the ball very early and hit them with quite a fast moving bat. Naturally you shouldn't push long balls.

It's not an easy shot to play well. You need excellent timing and touch, and also need to be able to read spin reasonably well. Just include it in your training schedule. The better you get the more you should practice it. Also, in-and-out footwork practice will help.

For the fundamentals you can't go passed PingSkills:

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Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

True Oskar, pingskills are great but those clips are an intro to pushing rather than the more advanced short pushing.