OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 25 Sep 2018, 19:15


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012, 16:34 
Offline
Pips for Breakfast! Mmmm. Beary Nice!
Pips for Breakfast! Mmmm. Beary Nice!
User avatar

Joined: 03 Nov 2010, 13:40
Posts: 2088
Location: Country Victoria, Australia
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 32 times
Fair enough, carbonman. However, I did think they were appropriate to a thread called 'Discussion on pushing'. Yes, I can see that the discussion has become more focused on advanced pushing, but I just thought people interested in the topic might find those videos interesting.

I always think that advanced techniques naturally grow from basic ones (I know it's obvious). As you've suggested, a big factor in successfully pushing a ball is that in-out footwork. I would also add that it's important to get your body behind the ball. I know this can't always happen, like those hard-to-reach short backspin balls to your forehand that you just manage to push back with your forehand.

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011

Blog: A Naked Bear


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012, 16:38 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 09 May 2012, 14:20
Posts: 467
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 24 times
Blade: Custom SoulSpin ALC blade
FH: Tibhar MX-P
BH: Xiom Omega V Pro
I find that pushing is a skill that is not as focused on as it probably should be. I know that when I train, its hard to find someone to do this drill with.

The short push is one of the better defensive service returns to stop a 3rd ball attack in most club based games that I've been part of previously and recently. I was always taught to 'push' the bat towards the net when doing the stroke.... but after my break from TT and getting back into it last season, I found my touch was severely lacking causing me to pop the ball up or net it. Its better now as I use the the training partner to practice his backspin serve and I drill short pushing returns, still, I find that its such a weakness in my game at the moment that it gifts my opponents with cheap points as I shovel the ball high or into the net.

_________________
Custom SoulSpin Limba/ALC
FH: Tibhar Evo MX-P Max
BH: Xiom Omega V Pro Max


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012, 16:40 
Offline
The EJ's Boogyman
The EJ's Boogyman
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 12:20
Posts: 2515
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 144 times
Sorry Oskar, I was just making sure one wasn't confused with the other. Yes. those clips are excellent and I agree that the advanced techniques grow out of the basic one's. Pushing is a funny one in that the stroke really gets pared down as you improve.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012, 17:15 
Offline
Pips for Breakfast! Mmmm. Beary Nice!
Pips for Breakfast! Mmmm. Beary Nice!
User avatar

Joined: 03 Nov 2010, 13:40
Posts: 2088
Location: Country Victoria, Australia
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 32 times
carbonman wrote:
... the stroke really gets pared down as you improve.


I've suspected this for a long time. All the evidence is there from watching elite-level matches to seeing how people play at different club levels. What I've seen as I've progressed in my own game is how at the lower levels (Division B, A4 and A3) pushing can still be employed to win games. In fact, at the lower end, like B-grade, most games end up being pushing rallies forcing errors. It doesn't bother me as it just seems like a fact of life for that level of play. Also, I've seen many players who continue this pushing game never progress to other divisions. The positive in this, of course, is how good a training ground these pushing-divisions become.

I suspect that if I'm invited into the A2 division next season I'll be forced to shed much of my defensive attitude. This is something I'm definitely looking forward to, because I've gradually moved farther away from pushing, pushing and more endless pushing. I know now that I am capable of winning points with solid forehand drives/smashes/loops and my very, very handy backhand smack-a-roo! I've also identified that I need a really good short serve, but I'll work on it over summer.

Admittedly, pushing still happens if I tighten up and find myself fighting for survival, but there is hope ... :rock:

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011

Blog: A Naked Bear


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012, 07:38 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 05:18
Posts: 876
Location: The (Un)ited States
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Blade: Appelgren Allplay
FH: Mark V GPS 2.0
BH: Reflectoid 2.0
so not much wrist action is used in a push, is there?

And yes, pingskills is great, and that video is great. this thread IS more about advanced pushing, BUT sometimes it's good to see the basics again.

_________________
Happy Holidays 'round the world!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012, 12:32 
Offline
Bytes worse than his Bark
Bytes worse than his Bark
User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 12:25
Posts: 1203
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 276 times
Blade: OldNittaku Carbon
FH: Evolution FX-P max
BH: Tenergy 05 max
I disagree about lack of wrist action in the push. Of course I have also had someone tell me that what I call a push is really a chop.

A number of years ago I ended up getting pain in the wrist which ended up being something like RSI from the extra little (!) bit of wrist I put into pushing, and was given specific exercises to make it go away. I still put wrist into it. Not so many straight pushing rallies these days of course.

_________________
Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012, 13:13 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5479
Location: USA
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 148 times
In China, a high % of my time getting coaching was spent on pushing. They teach two seperate pushes. One is right off the bounce. This is for a short push with lots of spin. The sooner after the bounce, the more spin. The other, push at the top of the arc. This HAS to be a Fast push and long. Spin can be varried with more or less wrist. If you push from the top of the arc, you MUST push long or they get a free cookie. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012, 13:16 
Offline
The EJ's Boogyman
The EJ's Boogyman
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 12:20
Posts: 2515
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 144 times
Good post hookshot - it sums things up nicely.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012, 19:30 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31983
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1643 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
hookshot wrote:
One is right off the bounce. This is for a short push with lots of spin. The sooner after the bounce, the more spin.

Why do you get more spin, the sooner after the bounce?

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012, 20:01 
Offline
Blockhead
Blockhead
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 19:20
Posts: 2125
Location: UK
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 150 times
Blade: Xiom Offensive S
FH: Tibhar MXP max
BH: TSP Regalis max
haggisv wrote:
hookshot wrote:
One is right off the bounce. This is for a short push with lots of spin. The sooner after the bounce, the more spin.

Why do you get more spin, the sooner after the bounce?


A very good question and one I have wondered about but I can verify that it is correct, I introduced this shot some while ago after reading one of Hookshot's posts. It certainly works, whether it is the fact that it is taken early or whether you play a slightly different stroke to be able to take it early I don't know.

However. Consider this. If you block (with inverted) off the bounce you get more topspin than taking the ball later. With pips more reversal.

Connected facts?

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Butterfly Sriver L 2.1
185g


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2012, 07:04 
Offline
Bytes worse than his Bark
Bytes worse than his Bark
User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 12:25
Posts: 1203
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 276 times
Blade: OldNittaku Carbon
FH: Evolution FX-P max
BH: Tenergy 05 max
I think you get more spin because the ball is moving faster straight after the bounce. I use this to my advantage, I can make what looks like (and is) exactly the same shot from what looks like exactly the same ball fed to me, but it depends how soon after the bounce I hit it as to how much spin there is. For those opponents not paying attention to this aspect, it can be quite surprising.

_________________
Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2012, 08:10 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5479
Location: USA
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 148 times
Right after the bounce, the ball is comming UP at a steep angle making a thinner contact. Later on it would make a thicker contact. :)

Think,,,brush loop in reverse.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2012, 13:44 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 05:18
Posts: 876
Location: The (Un)ited States
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Blade: Appelgren Allplay
FH: Mark V GPS 2.0
BH: Reflectoid 2.0
hookshot wrote:
Right after the bounce, the ball is comming UP at a steep angle making a thinner contact. Later on it would make a thicker contact. :)

Think,,,brush loop in reverse.



This makes sense. I was thinking that if it was true, it would have to do the angle of the ball against the racket.

I guess I'm gonna have to force myself to push rigth after the bounce next tuesday....

_________________
Happy Holidays 'round the world!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2012, 14:44 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5479
Location: USA
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 148 times
Have someone watch your pushes to see when you are actually making contact. It is VERY hard to make contact "right off the bounce". It might "feel" like you are taking it off the bounce but you need an observer to really tell. Like two or three inches after the bounce. The stroke will be ONLY two or three inches long, in line with the direction you want it to go,. The bat will be VERY close to the table. Here is a good tip, "Let the bat do the work". If done right after the bounce, there is no room to add any chop with the wrist. You will get plenty of backspin with no wrist if taken right off the bounce. Another tip, get the bat in front of the ball BEFORE contact. (Footwork) Try NOT to reach, move in front of the ball.
My coach probably spent 15% of my time on this shot. On short chop serves or pushes, you NEED this shot! Another option is a banana flip which I am still working on. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012, 14:14 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 05:18
Posts: 876
Location: The (Un)ited States
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Blade: Appelgren Allplay
FH: Mark V GPS 2.0
BH: Reflectoid 2.0
hookshot wrote:
Have someone watch your pushes to see when you are actually making contact. It is VERY hard to make contact "right off the bounce". It might "feel" like you are taking it off the bounce but you need an observer to really tell. Like two or three inches after the bounce. The stroke will be ONLY two or three inches long, in line with the direction you want it to go,. The bat will be VERY close to the table. Here is a good tip, "Let the bat do the work". If done right after the bounce, there is no room to add any chop with the wrist. You will get plenty of backspin with no wrist if taken right off the bounce. Another tip, get the bat in front of the ball BEFORE contact. (Footwork) Try NOT to reach, move in front of the ball.
My coach probably spent 15% of my time on this shot. On short chop serves or pushes, you NEED this shot! Another option is a banana flip which I am still working on. :)


I shall try this....thanks.

And thank you all for the input!

A question for the LPers: how different is pushing with LP than with inverted?

_________________
Happy Holidays 'round the world!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: